skyfirez1 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I have an LT why do I have to pay over 300 dollars for Native. Am I the only who's calling BS on this ? Hell I'd do 199 but 299 is stupid. Wtf 1 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocco_Crocco Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I love entitlement mentality. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Simple... you didn't spend as much as those who bought the LT's big brother. This way they've got everybody spending comparable amounts of money. No doubt this will influence some who are still on the fence about Helix vs. LT, if they also intend to purchase Native. Some will opt to pop for the full unit because the total cost is now much closer. LT + Native @ $299 = $1300 Full Helix + Native @ $99 = $1600 Marketing folks generally aren't stupid. $300 is a much lower psychological hurdle than $500. It's a smart move...for them. But I suspect it will aggravate most LT owners. 😕 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital_Igloo Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 We announced Helix Native in January. The $300 discount for Helix and Helix Rack owners was announced at the same time. Three months later, we announced Helix LT. One of its big "What's the difference between this and Helix Floor?" bullet points was the shallower discount on Helix Native; that is, there's a measurable advantage in buying Helix Floor or Helix Rack if you plan on buying Helix Native. Or put another way, with Helix or Helix Rack/Control, you get: scribble strips more ins and outs an extruded aluminum chassis and cast aluminum side panels and treadle a dedicated headphone volume knob a $300 discount on Helix Native when it's out None of this was obfuscated in the slightest. Also note that plug-in pricing tiers are built into the Helix family business model. Applying the same $300 discount to Helix LT would increase its per-unit cost as a function of blended margin, and therefore, likely mean you would've spent more than $999 on it. So technically, all the other people willing to buy Helix Native got you a discount on your LT, months before it could even be downloaded. Yay for fuzzy math! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyfirez1 Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 Not interested. Spent 3 hours now with Native and it sounds terrible. Yay for fuzzy math 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verne-Bunsen Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I have an LT why do I have to pay over 300 dollars for Native. Am I the only who's calling BS on this ? Yes, I do believe so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyrule Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 No he's not the only one calling BS on this. Let's do the math a different way, from that of a Helix LT owner A Helix only costs 40% more than a Helix LT Helix owners got approximately a 75% discount on Helix Native - $99 Helix LT owners shouldn't only get a %25 discount on Helix Native - $299 We paid almost a $1000 for a piece of their high-end gear and only 40% less than their higher end gear costs $199 would've been a much fairer price for Helix LT owners - even $249 would've somewhat palatable $299 is absurd and pretty much a punch in the gut to Helix LT owners. Seriously?? The majority of Helix hardware owners purchased their gear prior to any announcement of of a plug-in. On the contrary, IIRC Helix Native and it's pricing was announced before the official release of Helix LT? Did you purchase an LT assuming you would get Native @ $99? Didn't think so, but I could be wrong. Boo MF'ing who... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zooey Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 As DI said though, none of this is news. The whole pricing structure was clearly stated long ago. IMO LT doesn't make that much sense if you're interested in Native. If you don't like the decisions you made, maybe you're still within your return window and can get a do-over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital_Igloo Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 $299 is absurd and pretty much a punch in the gut to Helix LT owners. "Punch in the gut" makes it sound like you were surprised, or someone purposely misled you in some way. Regardless, applying MAP/discount ratios here misses the point. The deeper discount is a value-added feature of Helix Native and Helix Rack. It's like the scribble strips, the two extra effects loops, the aluminum chassis, the dedicated headphone knob, and the 10 simultaneous stomp mode switches... When debating whether to snag Helix or Helix LT, one examines all the differences (including the deeper discount) and simply decides whether the $500 US cost difference is worth it. I'm not sure how we can make pricing tiers more obvious in the future. Someone on Facebook might write "Oh, LT is the same as Helix with no screens above the switches and a few less ins and outs." It's literally impossible to expound on every single conversation, but anecdotally, I've not seen a single instance where someone claimed Helix Native would be $99 for LT users. We've attempted to make this very clear from the beginning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital_Igloo Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Yeah, I clearly missed the communication - this is obvious. However, the punch in the gut statement stands. I would've thought at least a more reasonable discount would've been offered to LT owners %75 vs %25 discount is a huge disparity. I've already contacted the store I bought the LT from to see if I can switch it out for a Helix. I'm hoping the discount will still be offered by the time I get the trade done I don't think we have plans to discontinue the discount tiers anytime soon, if ever. If you have suggestions on how to make these things more obvious in the future, I'm all ears. Unfortunately, we can't rely on guitar store employees, because... y'know. This is coming from an ex-guitar store employee. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyfirez1 Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 Just have 1 price for all helix owners. Is that so much to ask for ? Stop with the snarky comments, you're just making your organization look bad. No one cares about all the added features, only 1 thing speaks in this world - price. Price is everything. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyfirez1 Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 I've had my Lt maybe 3 weeks I never knew this forum existed. So yes I missed everything ever posted about pricing on this tiny little island. I, like most consumers spent my time drooling on music store websites and YouTube vids. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Price is everything. And here I thought "tone" was everything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyfirez1 Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 Don't make me call glen fricker@ SMG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewolf48 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Are you saying you missed the mega-thread on The Gear Page? Because it was all over there too. Line 6 have been completely open about this from the moment Native and LT were announced respectively. And you did some research before you spent the money on LT - right? This forum is not exactly hiding - try any search in google about anything technical about Helix and this forum comes out on top. I personally might have complained that I bought a Helix Floor 2 months before LT was announced... for less money, or about how Yamaha Europe then dropped the prices a few months later, but actually I have nothing to complain about. I bought something that I thought was good value for me at the time (and spent more than a year justifying) and any subsequent pricing changes is just what happens. It doesn't invalidate my original decision. £120 is still more than double what I have paid for any single item of music software (UK VAT at 20% on top) but once I get back into the UK from this work trip I am going to make sure it works on my PC with the free trial and probably cough up the extra cash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Don't make me call glen fricker@ SMG I don't imagine he even knows you, but if so he'd just say to quit bitching like a little girl and pay for it... ; ) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc5zga2013 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I would love to try it, but it wont accept 5 new password trys 2 new accounts, keep getting error user name or password incorrect over and over again WTF? reset, reboot, reload but wont log into server with proper credentials.......dam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I would love to try it, but it wont accept 5 new password trys 2 new accounts, keep getting error user name or password incorrect over and over again WTF? reset, reboot, reload but wont log into server with proper credentials.......dam This is why I don't rush to download stuff the millisecond it's released. Same with firmware updates. Problems are inevitable. Let everybody else wade through that cesspool for you. Then in a week or two when it works, give it a try... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuhajla Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 If someone doesn't like the $299 price on something, they have the freedom to NOT purchase it. It's quite a beautiful thing really. I have the Helix floor and am CHOOSING not to purchase the $99 Native at this time because I really don't need it at this time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franz Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I guess it all depends on your return of investment: how long will it take for the $299 to pay off? What's the benefit in terms of time saved and workflow you'll gain from LT+Native integration? Will it save you more than $299 in the long run? For Helix Rack/Floor the price of $99 is a no brainer, it extends the integration of hardware in a studio and live context in a way currently unique on the market, actually making things more efficient and with 100% predictable results, thus a lot cheaper. If you chose to go LT I guess it was because you couldn't justify the ROI for the bigger hardware so it's very likely that the same happens for Native. In this case think of it as buying some luxury good that won't retain its value over time, not necessary, only possible if your budget allows it - no one complains for the price of luxury goods, just don't buy it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorbeats Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 bwahahaha! ROFL! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorbeats Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Yet been a member since March 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbieb61 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Something is wrong with the forum. This thread isn't making any sense to me reading it. Not the subject matter...but a technical issue with the forum or something. I can see Digital Igloo quoting "PlickBadger" but I can't see any posts in the thread from him. And I see people making replies that are obviously replying to comments...but I don't see what they are replying to! How can that be? Is the forum messed up? Or am I not part of some super secret group of posters whose posts I can't see? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Something is wrong with the forum. This thread isn't making any sense to me reading it. Not the subject matter...but a technical issue with the forum or something. I can see Digital Igloo quoting "PlickBadger" but I can't see any posts in the thread from him. And I see people making replies that are obviously replying to comments...but I don't see what they are replying to! How can that be? Is the forum messed up? Or am I not part of some super secret group of posters whose posts I can't see? Simple...the OP deleted his posts. Now it reads like one of those stupid "chose your own adventure" books with a few chapters ripped out. ;) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorbeats Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Nope-still there. I can see them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Nope-still there. I can see them. My bad, he wasn't the OP. But "PlickBadger"'s post have clearly been deleted. By whom shall forever remain a mystery... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimDove Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 My bad, he wasn't the OP. But "PlickBadger"'s post have clearly been deleted. By whom shall forever remain a mystery... I removed my posts, because I felt like they were contributing to unneeded conflict and controversy. The bottom line is this. I planned on purchasing a Helix and the native and I did not read the pricing model beforehand. I should've purchased a helix and not an LT. I had sticker shock on the $299 price, because I glazed over the discount model and just assumed it was across the board. It's my bad, my mistake. I apologize for stirring up sh!t that was unnecessary. I'm trying to swap out my LT with a Helix, getting the $99 Native and moving on down the road. Apologies to everyone here and Line 6. Again, this was my bad.... I did not read the pricing and discount model prior to my purchase and overreacted to cost for LT users. Sorry for removing my posts and making it worse, I just thought it was the right thing to do to remove my nonsense posts. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital_Igloo Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I'm trying to swap out my LT with a Helix, getting the $99 Native and moving on down the road. Apologies to everyone here and Line 6. Again, this was my bad.... I did not read the pricing and discount model prior to my purchase and overreacted to cost for LT users. All good. We're discussing ways to make it more obvious to all users. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbieb61 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I removed my posts, Thanks for clearing that up brother. I thought I was losing my mind. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayttk Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Helix native is something I will use in the future but at the moment I'm still loving my 6 month old Helix floor, Is there any time limit on the $99 price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicLaw Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I have an LT why do I have to pay over 300 dollars for Native. Am I the only who's calling BS on this ? Hell I'd do 199 but 299 is stupid. WtfYou do not "have to pay over 300 dollars for Native." LT owners may buy Helix Native for $299 (which is not "over 300 dollars"). Helix Floor and Rack owners may buy Helix Native for $99. If you feel Helix Native may be useful for you, try the Free 15 Day Trial. Then consider returning your LT for a Helix Floor. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital_Igloo Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Helix native is something I will use in the future but at the moment I'm still loving my 6 month old Helix floor, Is there any time limit on the $99 price? We reserve the right to discontinue promotions at any time, but right now there's no plan to discontinue the Helix Native discounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zooey Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 We reserve the right to discontinue promotions at any time, but right now there's no plan to discontinue the Helix Native discounts.Any chance of a heads-up if that's about the happen DI? I do plan on getting it, but I don't have an immediate need, or an overabundance of uncommitted cash at the moment, so I'm holding off. If the choice at some point became now or $399, I'd jump on it almost certainly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimDove Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I've got my Helix cross shipping and my LT will be heading back. I'll have the Helix on Monday, registered and be able to get the $99 Native deal. Again, I sincerely apologize for creating any unnecessary drama - it's really not my MO, I can assure you. I'll be damned sure to read all the details thoroughly next time. I'm looking forward to trying to contribute to this board in a more positive manner in the near future. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitguit Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 I find it bizarre that people try to justify paying more and complain because others want to pay less. I see too the obsequious attitudes and a-lickiing that goes on. Note Line 6 and Yamaha are companies. They exist to make profit and will charge what they think they can get away with. They do not do fair price... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 They exist to make profit and will charge what they think they can get away with. They do not do fair price... Yup...just like every other company on earth. And when they cease to be profitable, they go away...then none of us would have these toys to play with anymore. Now where's my free stuff?!?!?!?! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hideout Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Yup...just like every other company on earth. And when they cease to be profitable, they go away...then none of us would have these toys to play with anymore. Precisely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leftzilla Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 I guess I am just a little amazed at some of the logic here. And I don't mean to insult anybody but some of this confuses me. For anyone that chose to buy an LT over a standard Helix I am sure that there were reasons such as I don't need the scribble strips or other bells and whistles, which is perfectly fine. I personally would not have even thought about Native as part of this, or if the price of Native was part of the thought process I would have certainly done the research on what information was out there. I bought my Helix as soon as it was released and have had it coming up on two years, at that time Native was probably only on Line 6's mind as it certainly wasn't announced at that time nor was the LT announced. When it did get announced with the pricing I was "great I have a Helix so it will only cost me $99" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital_Igloo Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Any chance of a heads-up if that's about the happen DI? I do plan on getting it, but I don't have an immediate need, or an overabundance of uncommitted cash at the moment, so I'm holding off. If the choice at some point became now or $399, I'd jump on it almost certainly. Right now, I can't even comprehend Line 6 removing the promotion. I can't guarantee we'll never ever remove it—only because promising something in writing is never a good idea—but as of now, there have been literally zero mentions of it not being permanent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zooey Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 That what I figured, but thanks for the reassurance anyway :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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