manix1979 Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 I want to ask digitaligloo how far the firmware allready is developed. We are all waiting like tigers for their meat. Can you please give the community a small info if it‘s in plan for release soon or will it be delayed? 21 days left and spring is over. Greetings 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbr13697 Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Spring has been gone for a while - it will be mid summer in 3 weeks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manix1979 Posted June 1, 2019 Author Share Posted June 1, 2019 Sure for the feeling but not in calendar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PierM Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 I've tried holding their feet to the proverbial fire before on release dates, but they have a BIGGER fire truck than I could have imagined... ; ) Dates do not dictate when it's ready, only people make that mistake. It will be released when it's ready to be, by their determination and not ours. My only concern is that it delivers as promised with all the bells and whistles as stated earlier, but even that is not a given. Oh yea, and as long as it also has a tuner for the editor... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Over on TGP, there's a 2.8 update thread and the Helix MEGA thread. IF L6 chooses to release any info on updates, that's where it happens. Latest word is that it's in the hands of the Beta testers and, barring major problems, will be out soon. That's all, folks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeTah Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 DT amp control via L6 that doesn’t require a separate midi workaround - please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 1 minute ago, GeeTah said: DT amp control via L6 that doesn’t require a separate midi workaround - please! Again, info over on TGP, that was announced by DI at NAMM as being included in 2.8. The whole list of ANNOUNCED features is there. We can ALWAYS speculate on surprise goodies though...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codamedia Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 49 minutes ago, rd2rk said: Again, info over on TGP, that was announced by DI at NAMM as being included in 2.8. The whole list of ANNOUNCED features is there. There is no need to go to TGP to see the feature list.... it's posted as a "sticky" thread at the top of these forums. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verne-Bunsen Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 1 hour ago, rd2rk said: Over on TGP, there's a 2.8 update thread and the Helix MEGA thread. IF L6 chooses to release any info on updates, that's where it happens. Latest word is that it's in the hands of the Beta testers and, barring major problems, will be out soon. That's all, folks! A 71 page (last I looked) thread about a firmware that hasn’t even materialized yet, classic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feffa86 Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 6 hours ago, GeeTah said: DT amp control via L6 that doesn’t require a separate midi workaround - please! DT/PC+ amp control without MIDI is on the feature list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 14 hours ago, manix1979 said: I want to ask digitaligloo how far the firmware allready is developed. 83.9%... they put it in sky writing over sunny Calabasas just yesterday. Didn't you see it all over CNN? May as well ask for the results of his prostate biopsy... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manix1979 Posted June 2, 2019 Author Share Posted June 2, 2019 Oh man, take it a bit seriously please. See it from an other side... We all paid around $1000 and get just a small info since a few month. It‘s like you wanna meet a friend and get told: „I have time in spring“. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunedinDragon Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 55 minutes ago, manix1979 said: Oh man, take it a bit seriously please. See it from an other side... We all paid around $1000 and get just a small info since a few month. It‘s like you wanna meet a friend and get told: „I have time in spring“. Okay...seriously speaking. Many of us paid $1500 and you paid $1000 to get all of the benefits we waited for (and got) over the last 4 years including features like snapshots, an HX Edit that allowed you to edit your patches rather than just save and restore them, and multitudes of various amps and effects. Updates aren't something we're ENTITLED to, it's something they graciously provide us with for free. So how about instead of whining you enjoy all the features you've got, and never had to wait for, and give them whatever amount of time they need to provide a rock solid, non-entitled, expansion of features rather than a rushed out, bug-laden atrocity just to appease your curiosity? By the way, summer doesn't start until June 21 when the Sun reaches it's northernmost point. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamefork Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, DunedinDragon said: Updates aren't something we're ENTITLED to, it's something they graciously provide us with for free. This is true unless some features / updates were announced, as such announce (which is how you do promises if you're a company) affects buyers decisions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datacommando Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 15 minutes ago, DunedinDragon said: Updates aren't something we're ENTITLED to, it's something they graciously provide us with for free. So how about instead of whining you enjoy all the features you've got, and never had to wait for, and give them whatever amount of time they need to provide a rock solid, non-entitled, expansion of features rather than a rushed out, bug-laden atrocity just to appease your curiosity? ^^^^^THIS^^^^^ Patience is a virtue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbtainton Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 It’s just a shame that we have to wait for 2.8 to be released before we get some great amps and effects and routing functionality to play with. If only the Helix already had a bunch of great sounding amps and cabs and effects that we could use instead of having to wait for this “Spring” update.... oh wait, that’s right, it already does. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manix1979 Posted June 2, 2019 Author Share Posted June 2, 2019 Just don‘t lay my words on the scale. AROUND 1000 does not mean straight 1000. It‘s every year the same and Line6 did not listen to us. From time to time a small status update and we are all in good mood. Or better don’t tell us in January. Just release it and give a changelog and that‘s it. Not that hard to make. ;-) If the features free or not I don’t care. It is a lot work to make a firmware no doubt. Nice to read would be: Finished beta testing. ReleaseCandidate is in internal testing. A few more days to test... or whatever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbtainton Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 If they said nothing until the release day, the same people badgering L6 for info on the 2.8 release would be badgering them about why they haven’t announced any new release yet and demanding that L6 give them a bit of info about when the next release will be and what it will contain. There is no way for L6 to win here. If they told you nothing you’d be complaining and when they tell you in advance you complain that they haven’t told you enough or often enough. 20 years in I.T. has taught me that your plan for L6 to give you a constant stream of testing and release updates and timeframes is just asking for a public relations nightmare when they inevitably fail to hit one of their release dates due to an unforeseen issue found in testing. In the current era of social media pile-ons, it’d be a disaster of a business plan. Let them do their work and release it when it’s free from major bugs and working how they want. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ernsttore Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 1 hour ago, manix1979 said: Just don‘t lay my words on the scale. AROUND 1000 does not mean straight 1000. It‘s every year the same and Line6 did not listen to us. From time to time a small status update and we are all in good mood. Or better don’t tell us in January. Just release it and give a changelog and that‘s it. Not that hard to make. ;-) If the features free or not I don’t care. It is a lot work to make a firmware no doubt. Nice to read would be: Finished beta testing. ReleaseCandidate is in internal testing. A few more days to test... or whatever. Agree, throw us a bone now and then so we know where it’s at... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 The bone you are seeking will materialize when it's released. Until then you have the sticky mentioned above, and whats on TGP. What "else" could you possibly want out of this, besides a tuner for the editor? Quote It’s just a shame that we have to wait for 2.8 to be released before we get some great amps and effects and routing functionality to play with. So you don't have great amps and effects and routing functionality now? Really? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manix1979 Posted June 2, 2019 Author Share Posted June 2, 2019 You did not get the point. We are NOT talking about what the Helix allready can or what the Helix can do in future. We talk about the FIRMWARE release teasing and nothing more. Helix is allready very good in all options. Not any doubt about it. Just the behavior of L6 and the information politics is the „problem“. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgar18 Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 I dont know about you guys but its June and My Balls are alot more sweaty now compare to last year at this time,I don tknow what it could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tavish-Rox Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 7 hours ago, DunedinDragon said: Okay...seriously speaking. Many of us paid $1500 and you paid $1000 to get all of the benefits we waited for (and got) over the last 4 years including features like snapshots, an HX Edit that allowed you to edit your patches rather than just save and restore them, and multitudes of various amps and effects. Updates aren't something we're ENTITLED to, it's something they graciously provide us with for free. So how about instead of whining you enjoy all the features you've got, and never had to wait for, and give them whatever amount of time they need to provide a rock solid, non-entitled, expansion of features rather than a rushed out, bug-laden atrocity just to appease your curiosity? By the way, summer doesn't start until June 21 when the Sun reaches it's northernmost point. Updates are part of a product life cycle nowadays, When I purchased the Helix I did so on the assumption that we would receive a good level of aftersales updates, just like when I purchase equipment by Crestron for example, I buy on the confidence that the team will deliver the updated features requested it is part of the 'digital package' we purchase, If we only paid to say £300 for the kit I would argue we got what we paid for... Line 6 Sold this a pro product, think they need to start developing at a professional speed to make sure customers don't wonder... These are software after all said and done regardless of the hardware running them.. Do you feel the same way about your Smartphone, Mac, PC? its the same kind of digital sales model.. I do wonder for how much longer L6 will continue to support the Helix though it's getting on now.. Just my opinion...I'm been happy with my Helix floor for 3 or 4 years can't remember when I got mine now, it was the second delivery into the UK... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTruelove Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 Firmware is one issue. To update firmware is to fix or improve the core abilities of a products current hardware. The Helix has firmware and within its capabilities was signal routing and DSP capabilities, that when it was released, reshaped the way all companies planned their future products. One of the key features, of DSP capabilities that Helix sold, was the selection of component base modeling. In the very beginning Line 6 had to choose how they would supply future models. Would they sell packs of models to customers or provide the new models free of charge. They chose free support of new models ( which should be independent of firmware updates ). The customer reactions to each set of model releases has kept the Helix active on forums and YouTube as well as in publications. This is great for future sales (and of course the Line 6 introductions of spin off products adds to the fervor). It is my observation that searches for Line 6 products along with YouTube videos, articles and forum activity have all seemed be be diminishing the longer Line 6 takes between New Modeled additions for the Helix line. Yes owners of the various products are split in what seems to be posted. Some are willing to wait patiently for Firmware improvements, seeing new models as nice but not as important as bug free operation. Others are eagerly awaiting new Models that would help more closely emulate the styles or sounds they are looking for. Again, New models should be easier, quicker and independent of firmware. Nothing beats the ability to try out thousands of dollars worth of equipment in multitudes of combinations conveniently like the Helix. More models of cool products, even Line 6 originals that cant be found in real world devices, that is what I think will keep Helix a talked about, center of musical tone discovery tool that will fit into guitar, bass, keyboard and vocal discussions and arsenals. More models more often! The expectations of firmware is entitlement only to the extent of : Has the companies promise of advertised features been met by existing software or is further programming required. In this respect I think that Line 6 has met its public responsibility and any further firmware just shows the respect that Line 6 has for its products and the customers that support them. Thats my two cents. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tavish-Rox Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, JTruelove said: Firmware is one issue. To update firmware is to fix or improve the core abilities of a products current hardware. The Helix has firmware and within its capabilities was signal routing and DSP capabilities, that when it was released, reshaped the way all companies planned their future products. One of the key features, of DSP capabilities that Helix sold, was the selection of component base modeling. In the very beginning Line 6 had to choose how they would supply future models. Would they sell packs of models to customers or provide the new models free of charge. They chose free support of new models ( which should be independent of firmware updates ). The customer reactions to each set of model releases has kept the Helix active on forums and YouTube as well as in publications. This is great for future sales (and of course the Line 6 introductions of spin off products adds to the fervor). It is my observation that searches for Line 6 products along with YouTube videos, articles and forum activity have all seemed be be diminishing the longer Line 6 takes between New Modeled additions for the Helix line. Yes owners of the various products are split in what seems to be posted. Some are willing to wait patiently for Firmware improvements, seeing new models as nice but not as important as bug free operation. Others are eagerly awaiting new Models that would help more closely emulate the styles or sounds they are looking for. Again, New models should be easier, quicker and independent of firmware. Nothing beats the ability to try out thousands of dollars worth of equipment in multitudes of combinations conveniently like the Helix. More models of cool products, even Line 6 originals that cant be found in real world devices, that is what I think will keep Helix a talked about, center of musical tone discovery tool that will fit into guitar, bass, keyboard and vocal discussions and arsenals. More models more often! The expectations of firmware is entitlement only to the extent of : Has the companies promise of advertised features been met by existing software or is further programming required. In this respect I think that Line 6 has met its public responsibility and any further firmware just shows the respect that Line 6 has for its products and the customers that support them. Thats my two cents. I agree with all of that... If support is dropped at any point soon we as a consumer are entitled to an EOL notice, I'm still on the fence whether to buy another unit (probably Stomp).. for a fly out rig or opt for the new Fractal.. they clearly have a roadmap for there products and offer far better update program.. IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBD_123 Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 On 6/1/2019 at 8:16 AM, manix1979 said: I want to ask digitaligloo how far the firmware allready is developed. We are all waiting like tigers for their meat. Steady on :-) I suspect many of us are more sanguine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBD_123 Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 19 minutes ago, markdaniels76 said: Line 6 Sold this a pro product, think they need to start developing at a professional speed to make sure customers don't wonder... These are software after all said and done regardless of the hardware running them.. Do you feel the same way about your Smartphone, Mac, PC? its the same kind of digital sales model.. I do wonder for how much longer L6 will continue to support the Helix though it's getting on now.. This is a false framing. There exists no template for 'developing [modellers] at a professional speed'. What does this even mean? Asserting that a product doesn't match some arbitrary and nebulous criterion is more than a little pointless. As for continuing development and support, IIRC L6 has stated that Helix has plenty of life in it yet - as in years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tavish-Rox Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 1 minute ago, BBD_123 said: This is a false framing. There exists no template for 'developing [modellers] at a professional speed'. What does this even mean? Asserting that a product doesn't match some arbitrary and nebulous criterion is more than a little pointless. As for continuing development and support, IIRC L6 has stated that Helix has plenty of life in it yet - as in years. Not at all, the template exists in other sectors too, Line 6 relies on the patience and generosity of its customers and fan base to tolerate their product development pace and roadmap, I have been fortunate enough to have 2 successful careers I can accommodate in parallel, one of those is as an AV architect, so I deal with the Yamaha's, NEC's, Panasonics, Crestron's, LG's, Sony's in a very competitive market, part of my role is to make the decisions on which manufacturer to purchase from (via distribution on some), I always consider the product roadmap essential to these decision-making process, If I'm told/promised about an update or new feature/firmware I expect it, and I expect it to be delivered swiftly, quite demanding I know.. but as I said.. successful .. I have no problem dropping a manufacturer based on a service issue, or loss of confidence. This doesn't even start to discuss bug reports from firmware releases, again L6 have their own pace and company ethos when it comes to this kind of the rollout, imagine if Apple or Microsoft updated at the same pace... 'IIRC L6 has stated that Helix has plenty of life in it yet - as in years.' -- Where did you get 'years' from that statement? was that an official L6 statement? if so link it... Again just opinions and personal expectations, to be fair L6 are not really 'Professional' rather thigh end consumer, BTW I don't use L6 for any commercial work as they don't offer a 5-year warranty, which is a minimum for our contracts. I still think the Helix sounds great, just not supported quite as I think it should be... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 9 hours ago, manix1979 said: Oh man, take it a bit seriously please. See it from an other side... We all paid around $1000 and get just a small info since a few month. It‘s like you wanna meet a friend and get told: „I have time in spring“. There's nothing here worth taking seriously...it's the same pi$$ing and moaning again and again. All the whining in the universe won't make the firmware show up one minute sooner... yet these ridiculous threads never end. "Where?!?!?! When?!?!?! Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?!?!?!?!" It'll get here when it gets here.... and then five minutes later the b1tching will start all over again. Except then it'll be about how much the free $hit you just got sucks, and you waited months for nothing. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lungho Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 I kind of wish Line 6 wouldn't have dropped the hint so early so as to avoid these kinds of threads. As it stands right now, we got thousands of dollars of modeled gear at our fingertips.....gear most of us could never afford to own all at one time. If I were a betting man, I'd bet most of us haven't fully explored Helix with what we have available right now. It is easier for me to wait for an update to drop when I can look back to all the headaches people used to deal with in while gigging during the 60's, 70's, 80's etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBD_123 Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 14 minutes ago, markdaniels76 said: Not at all, the template exists in other sectors too Apples and oranges. Where's the template for 'professional speed' (which is meaningless, as stated) in the modelling sector? Citing your own authority straight after a logical fallacy of false equivalence is not persuasive. As pointed out earlier, this is baseless moaning couched in flawed rhetoric. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBD_123 Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 15 minutes ago, markdaniels76 said: 'IIRC L6 has stated that Helix has plenty of life in it yet - as in years.' -- Where did you get 'years' from that statement? was that an official L6 statement? if so link it... Like I said, IIRC. Plenty of eyes on this thread, so no doubt someone can either correct or corroborate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 17 minutes ago, lungho said: I kind of wish Line 6 wouldn't have dropped the hint so early so as to avoid these kinds of threads. In which case we'd all be treated to the exact same gripe-fest, just with a slightly different stench. We would drown in "Why doesn't Line 6 ever tell us anything?" threads instead. They can't win. It's like asking which of the Menendez brothers you like better.... or if you'd prefer the 5 lb or 10 lb bag of $hit? ;) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manix1979 Posted June 2, 2019 Author Share Posted June 2, 2019 (edited) We don’t want to know when... the date is almost clear... the users just want to see from time to time a status update. Nothing more. Keep your feet on the ground and don’t lift off like a rocket. You could avoid those questions and threads COMPLETELY by, AS ALLREADY TOLD, posting status updates. Nobody talks about daily updates. Just communicate a bit with us and inform us. You sit in the office while testing and trying... you see the effort every day or get reports from the programmers. For god‘s sake let us ask how far it went allready. Development could be a lot faster if you would switch to open beta. Everyone who wants to test can test it and report the errors. Be glad that customers have interest in your work and we appreciate what you guys developed over the years!!! Edited June 2, 2019 by manix1979 Content Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 26 minutes ago, manix1979 said: We don’t want to know when... the date is clear... Then for god‘s sake let us ask how far it went allready. If you already know when, then what are you complaining about? And what possible difference would a "status update" make if it won't change the "when"? Frankly, this makes no sense at all. Backpedaling inevitably leads to contradicting one's self.... What exactly do you want them to say? "It's going great! Gonna start work on algorithm 3.1415926 on Tuesday!!!!"? What insight would that provide? Here's the update: They're one day closer to releasing it than they were yesterday. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 Can someone point to the fine print that says Line-6 is "Required" once you buy their gear, to give us a status update on what they are doing? Ive been down this same road before, but there is no "contract", agreed negotiation, promise or voodoo doll curse involved in them having to provide anything to US (the user) other than legit time-frames in warranty repairs and the finished product once paid for. That's it folks, and anything else (including updates) is just wishful thinking. sure, they might go under and or sell fewer products by not updating what they sold, but there is no genie in the bottle forcing them to, including a status report just because we might want one. Period. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tavish-Rox Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 30 minutes ago, BBD_123 said: Apples and oranges. Where's the template for 'professional speed' (which is meaningless, as stated) in the modelling sector? Citing your own authority straight after a logical fallacy of false equivalence is not persuasive. As pointed out earlier, this is baseless moaning couched in flawed rhetoric. No not fruit... Perhaps my choice of wording wasn't quite as you would have liked BBD... Unfortunately, I'm dyslexic and don't have your gift of grammar... I can, of course, have an opinion and choice, my authority is partly guided with that but not entirely, Where does your authority come from to call an individuals opinion 'Meaningless' and to be quite frankly rude? Perhaps I chose to enter the wrong forum... clearly any opinion which differs from L6's isn't welcome here.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craiganderton Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 Well...given that Microsoft's March "update" hosed my W10 computer to where it couldn't boot afterward (had to re-install from an image, and turn off updates), and the Mojave update bricked my Mac to where Apple Support's solution was to re-install the OS from scratch...AFAIC, Line 6 can take as long as they want...as long as it doesn't brick my Helix :) 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBD_123 Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, markdaniels76 said: Where does your authority come from to call an individuals opinion 'Meaningless Basic comprehension skills and logic, as explained, twice, above. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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