rvroberts

When you play through an amp, you are playing through a device designed to take the output of an electric guitar and make it sound good. When you play through FRFR, you are playing through a system that is designed to deliver a full audio spectrum. A guitar amp and a speaker designed for guitar is a very different thing. Guitars sound good where most of the frequencies are limited to say (depending on the particular amp) 100Hz to say 5KHx. The FRFR system is probably trying to deliver say 40Hz to 20kHz. Not only that but the FRFR system is trying to be as flat as possible over that range, the guitar amp will have a tendency to be mid heavy. As you can see, this is because a limited frequently range with a mid bump makes guitars sound good. Even what we describe as a glassy Strat sound has little need for anything above 5.5K. Traditional recorded guitar is a mic (also with noticeable bass roll off and limited high end) on a guitar amp. Not slightly FRFR. So why bother with FRFR? Well if you want to reproduce as accurately as possible different guitar amps, pedals etc, you need a system that itself is not colouring the sound. What a lot of people struggle with is that in order to get a great guitar sound, they will need to throw away a lot of the potential frequency range available. Distortion that sounds musical does no have any high frequency. Guitar amps sort that because they have limited frequently response, FRFR systems require you to make that sort of decision. Every time you hear someone complain that the Helix distortion is harsh, you can pretty much guarantee they need to EQ their total range to get back that guitar amp limitation. Hope that helps.

If you go down the monitor path (HS7s) - get a pair. First stereo is a lot of fun for delays etc, but you then have great stereo system ans surely you play along with backing tracks and listen to music in general? So why not have a good sound system not just a guitar speaker?

Well at home I use my studio monitors - basically upmarket stereo speakers - and it's pretty good. If you want a box that does the job for home and even a not too loud gig, there is the Headrush FRFR-108. From all reports it's good. But you can make anything that's kind of flat response do well at home volumes. You just need to adjust the global EQ to match the particular speakers.

Well, how loud do you play? If you want something that can get levels similar to a 50W guitar amp through 2x12 - you should be fine. If you need to compete with 100w Marshall stacks at full tilt - you might need 2. And then you got stereo!

Well to start with - what piece of software did this come form?

It just depends on your brainspace - I only use the editor - but I know some people refuse to do that. I like that you can see it all on the screen.

Just had another play - I get more than close-ish with the Mutant (Mutron) filter set on low pass. Would satisfy 90% of people.

Yes - the Adrenalinn is a very unique effects device. That sound that John Mayer gets on Don't trust Myself for example................you can get close(ish) with some of the envelop stuff, but it's not as good for that particular sound. Would be great to be able to get that sound though! It's a great box, the Helix, but it can't do everything!

Thank you Line 6 and the Helix team - that was a nice clean update! How it should have always been! Well done.

First step - is your Helix getting its power form the same socket/circuit as your amp? If not make sure it is. If hum is gone - success. There is a ground lift on the Helix (well on the floor board anyhow) try this. - success? if not, as this sounds like an earth loop, make sure your cables are correct - that the earth is connected all the way through (that includes inside your guitar. If you have hum after all that, Either your amp has an earth problem or - extremely unlikely, but possible - your Helix is faulty. The fact you get it even with the Helix off seems very likely to be an earth problem outside the Helix. If you can run your Helix into your stereo or some other amplification system - try it. (also be sure to use the same power source as that amp) That will tell you if the Helix is OK. You are using a correct power plug on the Helix??

I see what you are trying to do, and you can bet that's Nile Rodgers is direct into the desk. This would quiet probably have been a Neve desk (analogue obviously) as they were all the rage in studios then. Not a valve preamp though I think. Everyone loved the Neves, but they were solid state by then. What I hear very much is his classic strat (the hit maker) you hear that even in messy live mixes like this So the mic preamp might do it for you, or as you were experimenting anyhow, anything that just adds a touch of overtone to an otherwise totally clean Strat on the neck pickup by the looks of this. Still, that part on the original sits so well in the track...........!

I suggest you show us a patch screen grab or something? I've had great results personally, especially in Stereo, but you might be looking for something I'm not. Maybe a sound sample or a link to some great sound you can't get. Maybe what I love you hate and vice versa!

As you mention analog mic pres, you probably need to know - or maybe you do? - that the old desks when used with guitar direct, were generally driven pretty hard - to get the harmonic overtones you might otherwise associate with a valve amp. So if you were to isolate those tracks, they would not have been any more (probably less) clean than what you are showing here. I think you are obsessing in the wrong territory, it's more about how the sound sits in the mix. There is not one sound here - varying reverb levels and types will be just as important and obviously EQ that is totally track dependant. Then you end up with final mastering tricks from compression (you need compression somewhere in that chain even if it's post amp and mic) through to spacial trickery and master EQ - it's layer upon layer of the art of recording - it's not all about the "perfect" sound at the source. Doesn't exist because you have to modify it in the context of the whole.

No simple quick fix unfortunately! Rolling off 100hz and say 4K (and maybe as low as 3K) is a start - but you just got to play it at volume - I'm constantly tweaking sounds created in the studio to sound good live - you will also need to adjust mids. Even delay etc sounds a bit different. So prep in the studio gets you somewhere to where you want to be, but there's no substitute for live level so far!

Well you will definitely check your preset before you start your next show! It's not an easy accident to have. If you are using a batch of presets and say snapshots, generally the worst that happens is you've accidentally tapped one of the up/down switches and the presets will be flashing. You need to make 2 stumbles to actually select the wrong preset - and it's clearly labeled when you do. I'm always checking. Not an answer unfortunately, but if you had pedals it would tell you less. A simple reselect of the preset is all you need to make a habit of. Don't assume anything! I suspect you will be doing that anyhow now!

There is a simple fix for this. You may notice a lot of IR names are too long anyhow and get truncated. I (and a lot of other people) rename my IRs. The important bit is a number at the start Think computers - I number 001, 002, 003 etc. the 00 part will be 091 for slot 91 and 110 for slot 110. Computers put that list in correct order. Importing that list will always stay in the correct order. I keep any useful stuff in the name, so it's say 012marshall4x12GB GB being green back. Could be 012Marsh4x12GB57 if you want to put in the mic. Screen grab of list is a nice idea too - if a bit time consuming putting things in the correct spot. As the Helix references the slot not the name, I don't think there will be any name recognition any time soon.

I'm going to guess a lot of what I'll say you already know. But if you get cut through with your other rig, I'd be looking for what's different (at rehearsal volume). I'm not so sure about the Power Cab as I have never used one, but I've been concerned about it's output for an FRFR system - I use 2 x 1000 watt wedges and I have no problem (500w RMS) It sounds like your band is loud (do you have problems with volume in a lot of clubs?) so it might be that one power cab is a bit marginal anyhow.......more on that later. I'm also thinking that the market for these off the shelf patches is aimed at people playing at home.....they are always going to audition them that way. Now, you do realise that the way you hear changes with volume? So you will need to tweak a sound that was great at home levels when you turn it up - generally you will need less really low lows and high highs and more mids. That's just life and loud music. It is not possible to create a great sound at conversation level and expect it to work at band level. Yes, you can turn up even more to be heard, but it still won't sound great or have cut. So EQ is 100% part of the issue. Then there is the frequencies of 2 guitar players - mostly you have to play in different ranges and your sounds need to be different enough and in different frequencies for it not to be a constant battle for definition. The old trick was if one guy used a Les Paul, the other used a Strat - that tended to mostly fix the audibility issue. I was watching Classic Rock Show on YouTube a few minutes ago - the 2020 show, and if you check Pete Thorn, he's always pretty bright - that cuts through. Those sounds sound over high mid and lacking lows at low volume and people would say not warm - if you saw him on That Pedal Show, they commented on his sound being bright. My point is you need to EQ for the volume you will play at not what sounds good at home. Your rehearsal space might not really represent your live conditions either. It's a bit of an old world idea that you get this huge level on stage - if you are struggling for volume it's kind of a question of are you too quiet or are they too loud? That's kind of a decision you have to make as a band - if sound guys are always complaining that you are hard to mix, you have to think about how loud you really need to be. You may know that some bands are very quiet on stage these days. I've been in a lot of rehearsal studios and some just build up mud (probably standing waves - see if your vocal mics want to take off at low frequencies) which won't help especially if it's in the range of your bass player. Venues can also do that - if your bass player can't or won't EQ around that you are just going to have a bad time. Definitely get your guitars out of the mud frequencies. Sometimes you have to kill 250Hz say just to clean up the sound. Something you'd never do at home. Anyhow, I'd look at EQ firstly, then I'd think about your choice of tones and parts. Obviously you liked your old rig - so what's the difference?? And if a power cab at edge of clipping is not loud enough........you guys need to think about your ears. (yes I said I have way more power than you - I like to have that security - but I don't try to fill the room - my monitors are exactly that - monitors - they point at me. So I'm never anywhere near full.)

No you don’t need a DI

I'm going to disagree with some of the above - but then it all depends on what you call a fat clean sound. I'm thinking the John Mayer type of sound - but you might also be thinking say a very Jazz sound - or a crystal clear hifi type of sound........they are all totally different. All the cleans I like are actually just before the amp produces noticeable distortion. That adds natural compression and subtle harmonic content. Also, volume is unfortunately part of the problem - as discussed here often - thing sound different depending on volume - our hearing is volume dependant - look up Fletcher Munson - it is real stuff most of us learn means any sound created at home needs tweaking - basically you will almost always find yourself reducing tops and bottoms as the volume gets to live level. So keeping all that in mind, I'd start with a fender model, just because most people like fender cleans.(Twin Reverb?) I'd set the gain so it's just distorting and then back it off a tad till you felt that the clean you like is "under your fingers" so a little more enthusiasm might just be adding a hint of grit. To me then, I've got a dynamic interactive amp relationship with my playing. You can make that a little less dynamic, but very player friendly with some subtle compression - you either will or won't like that - you have to play around with the compressors. Also almost no one likes a clean without some reverb - so add that and adjust - plate or spring in legacy section are likely choices. If you want to do fine tuning, you could put an EQ pedal after the amp ( I like the simplicity of the Cali Q as I'm always reducing the lows and fishing in the mids for the exact sound). Obviously you might like to drop the amp/cab default combo and use an IR - but at this stage it's all personal taste. One thing I'd say loud and clear - and something I keep hearing others disagree with - is using high and low cuts. No good guitar sound should have much below 100Hz and much above 6KHz (often 5KHz) if you want a "smooth" sound, so don't be subtle with those low and high cuts! The fender amp thing is just to get you started - you can take the same approach with a Vox or a surprising range of other amps in the Helix. Even some known for their overdrive make good cleans when run clean(ish). The suggestions above will give you the "other" clean - crystal cleans - see how you go!

I doubt there is a "great" guitar sound out there with much information above 7K. It's well outside the range of what we expect of a guitar and amp. Have a look on the Celestion speaker curves. Getting absolutely nothing though is strange. The cut on reverb only affects the reverb, not the direct signal. If you are pushing frequencies above 7K, it's going to sound harsh.

I'm surprised how little help has been offered so far.............?? Let's start at the beginning. I don't use fractal, so I can't know if this applies there, and I don't know anything about your rig - so that doesn't help at all. This is assuming you are going FRFR. If not - probably not useful. To get a good sound - one that a guitar player referencing the history of guitar sounds might call good - just with a basic amp/cap combo - you need low and high cuts. This is because guitar speakers have limited frequency range - on purpose - because that's what makes guitar sound good. A guitar plugged directly into a HiFi sounds bad. Now if you plug your guitar into the Helix and plug that into an FRFR system - that's what you got. To confuse this, some systems are doing a "quick fix" for this and adding a basic speaker emulation as a default. You might think an IR is that emulation, but probably (and this is also different depending on the IR) this is simply reproducing the mic directly in front of the speaker - and that also generally sounds harsh. So a general EQ is, and always has been part of a recorded guitar sound. As there is nothing that sounds nice much above 5.5Khz - most people put a cut there abouts. Without that all distortion (including amp distortion) sounds harsh. Now if you use a good IR and you apply that cut (and a low cut at say 100hz) you are now in the ballpark - a starting point for your own ears to make adjustment. If that doesn't help, and you are using an FRFR rig, then I'd be keen to hear more. You will find YouTube videos where people have A/B'd the real pedal with the Helix model with very slight difference (the kind of difference you get from different pedals), so I'd say it's something you are or aren't doing. If all that EQ stuff is totally familiar to you.......can't explain you getting different results to many (respected) others.

Just a common one - is there an IR in the preset? Do you have an IR in that slot?

A Blues Junior is a 15 watt guitar amp - it does not have enough clean headroom to work in a band situation with the Helix unless you just use the Helix as a pedal board - an overdrive, a chorus and not much else and accept that you will not get a clean tone anyhow that keeps up well with a loud drummer. You got to have more headroom to exploit the Helix pretty much at all. 15 overdriven tube watts can sound loud-ish, but then you are stuck totally with the tone of the blues Junior.

If you hate anything to do with computer issues - stay away! The Helix can be a bit fussy about USB. If on the other hand, you are happy to do a little trouble shooting and your computer is not 10 years plus old, you will sort those issues quickly (if you have them at all) and life will be good! I had a few connectivity issues in the beginning - connected fine to my Mac Laptop, but not my iMac - took a little fiddling - been totally reliable with both for 2 years. So you know who you are - if you are the "it just works or I hate it" person.................you might be unlucky! Obviously by now thousands of people are having happy experiences - but not everyone. Not specific to any particular model. It's always your computer/cable/USB interface in the end.

The only concerns as far as I know are in relation to other software that is not 64bit. That was the notice that you can read in this forum (last banner under your heading). So it's not about Helix compatibility as much as other software you might use with your Helix - that will need updating if it's 32bit or just getting old. As I type this Lungho links to the same article to which I was referring.