Helix LT...Real ??

[bsd512]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the upcoming Helix Native offer something like this?

All you need is some kind of basic audio interface or guitar to USB cable and with Native on your laptop you have the portable, minimalist unit you seek.

 

 

yup. Indeed. You'd have to use it with a computer obviously, but yes.

 

 

Agreed - not quite as convenient as what I would really like, but that would definitely do the trick, albeit a little more hassle.

 

Gotta boot the laptop, connect the hardware interface (yet another unsightly dangly cable device to get tangled up in stuff), bring up Logic, start the plug-in, and all that. By that time, probably 5 minutes has passed.

 

The upside of Native being you'd have a really powerful Helix emulation right there with full edit capability and the ability to then save the results and merge back into my other Helix.

 

But ideally I'd love something I could bring up in 30 seconds, guitar and headphones already plugged in, just hit the power switch and go with the guitar in easy reach of my "comfy" chair. :)

 

But yes, I was thinking about Helix Native, and that's why I haven't bought anything yet - I want to see how well all that works. I'll get Helix Native regardless.

 

Helix Native is likely going to be that solution, practically speaking. I kind'a doubt Line 6 is going to make what I want in the form-factor I want. Maybe a tiny little Mac Mini with a tiny monitor that has it's own spot within reach of my comfy chair that is always-on w/DAW and Native running and ready to go at any given time would be a compromise. That's getting up there in price, though.

[PeterHamm]

...But ideally I'd love something I could bring up in 30 seconds, guitar and headphones already plugged in, just hit the power switch and go with the guitar in easy reach of my "comfy" chair. :)...

 

 

Used POD HD Bean. Perfect.

[bsd512]

Used POD HD Bean. Perfect.

 

 

For some reason I was thinking those had been discontinued, but I see one on GuitarCenter (not at SweetWater). I see a AMPLIFi TT Desktop though for $150 at Sweetwater. One of those may be the ticket. Neither of those can share patches with the Helix, though - but that would icing on the cake for my purposes, not really a hard requirement.

[PeterHamm]

For some reason I was thinking those had been discontinued, but I see one on GuitarCenter (not at SweetWater). I see a AMPLIFi TT Desktop though for $150 at Sweetwater. One of those may be the ticket. Neither of those can share patches with the Helix, though - but that would icing on the cake for my purposes, not really a hard requirement.

 

 

The POD HD Bean is indeed discontinued I'm pretty sure, or close to it. But it can be had used for as little as $150US. That's a steal. And great for this kind of use.

[Thurston9]

Agreed - not quite as convenient as what I would really like, but that would definitely do the trick, albeit a little more hassle.

 

Gotta boot the laptop, connect the hardware interface (yet another unsightly dangly cable device to get tangled up in stuff), bring up Logic, start the plug-in, and all that. By that time, probably 5 minutes has passed.

 

I'd be far more worried about latency.  

[bsd512]

The POD HD Bean is indeed discontinued I'm pretty sure, or close to it. But it can be had used for as little as $150US. That's a steal. And great for this kind of use.

 

 

I'm not really familiar with the POD HD stuff, but I did own and Amplifi 150 at one point (I gave it to my son when I got the Helix), so I kind of know what to expect from that. I wasn't a big fan of the iOS interface, though. The great interface on the Helix is what really sold me on it, and the tones are superb.

 

I like the form factor of the Amplifi TT better than the bean - looks more solid, heavier, probably won't slide around just from cable movement. The Bean looks very light and would likely scoot around and be falling off the desk. Both are $150.

 

With my inexperience with the POD HD, but having experience with the Amplifi, do you have experience with both? If so, any opinion on which would be the better tonal experience?

 

If/when a Helix TT comes out in a few years, I'll jump to that. But for $150, both seem like a good bargain and are close enough to what I'm looking for that I'm going to get one or the other. I just need a nudge in one direction or the other. :-)

[regalpierot]

I was always hoping Line 6 would really something like a 'Helix Player', almost a pedal the size of a TC Flashback X 4 and maybe a small LED display like a Strymon Timeline that you could plug in via USB and upload presets you'd designed in the Helix Editor (or obviously Helix) on. Similar in a way I guess to the way TC Electronic do their TonePrints.

 

I do agree this LT is kinda neither, at $999 you might be better off going a bit extra and getting the big brother. Maybe if it had removed the color display (so had more of a Firehawk thing), touch footswitches and expression pedal and been like $749 that would have been an amazing alternative for those on a budget or needing a backup.

[jbuhajla]

yup. Indeed. You'd have to use it with a computer obviously, but yes.

I may try this as a backup for the floor unit. If I can get it to work from a Presonus (or any brand X) interface, laptop in tablet mode, 2-3 basic presets, with interface output direct into FOH, then I have a $99 backup that could get me through a Sunday at church. FAR from ideal, but sounds like an option. 

[MonkeyXT]

The PODhd bean is quite heavy in fact; you won't have that wandering around your desk unintentionally.

If you can find one of the angle mounting brackets, I'd go with that. Put some rubber or cork on the bottom for anti-slip, and away you go.

In fact, I always kept my beans mounted on their angle brackets (which I did some modifications to in order to actually strap the PODs down onto firm pins rather than the rubber spikes) and mounted atop a microphone stand which lived directly beside my desk.

My favorite form factor in fact... getting used to that is why I went with Helix Rack instead of floor... to have the brain and controller placed apart.

[bsd512]

Thanks, MonkeyXT!

[brue58ski]

The POD HD Bean is indeed discontinued I'm pretty sure, or close to it. But it can be had used for as little as $150US. That's a steal. And great for this kind of use.

 

POD HD Bean is no longer being manufactured.

[datacommando]

Does anyone else feel cheated with the release of the LT?

 

Why - The Helix has stuff I don't use (which are not present in the LT). Could've saved myself 400 USD?

Well, just imagine how Fractal owners must feel. How many variants of their product have been released since the original came out? I think it's called "progress".

[tmntshredder]

Does anyone else feel cheated with the release of the LT?

 

Why - The Helix has stuff I don't use (which are not present in the LT). Could've saved myself 400 USD?

Absolutely! I don't feel cheated about the $1500 that I spent on Helix, however. It's a fantastic product and worth the money. The resale value on Helix is going to absolutely nose dive though. I'll admit that I haven't been entirely happy in the modeling world, and I had made the decision to sell it. Again, not because Helix isn't a great product, but because I miss playing out of a real amp. So, a couple of days ago I listed it on Craigslist and had a buyer pretty quickly. Guess what happened? He found out about Helix LT and backed out. Helix LT is nothing more than greed on Line 6's part. They're using the technology that they put into the product that they sold us for $1500, cramming it into cheaper packaging, and selling it for a third less than what we paid. $500 is a lot of money to most musicians, and most of them are going to go for the new product, not the used one. I'm glad that I'm jumping out now. Wait until Helix LT's hit the used market, and it's going to get way worse.

[requietus666]

I just don’t get it why one would cry over his purchase whenever a next product comes out and (naturally) has new appeal to it. Why doesn’t it really come down to a question if the differences in hardware aren’t worth the difference in price. It’s a marketing, forchrissakes, and the whiff of headrush, too, maybe :-)

[silverhead]

Would you also feel cheated if you bought a new car this year and next year the manufacturer introduced a stripped down version of the same model with fewer features at a reduced price? How about a lawnmower? PA system? Mobile device? Computer?

 

Pick your product/industry. Happens all the time, everywhere.

[requietus666]

We are two guitarists in a band, I’ve got Helix, and the other guy is all analog with tube amp. Since I introduced Helix to him it really has convinced him that my setup is a convenient and great-sounding piece of gear and probably worth going digital some day soon for him, too. When Headrush was announced in NAMM I asked him if he’d consider it by any chance. He said, „oh, definitely not now, because it’s just starting, Line6 [and the other brands] will have to make its moveâ€. What we didn’t expect that this move would come so soon. Exciting times, definitely.
 

[tmntshredder]

Well guys, see it how you will. New products are just that...new products. They usually have new features and something different to offer. Helix LT is not a stripped down product, but the same product with very minor differences for a third less. Not a couple of hundred dollars, but a third less of the cost of it's predecessor! If you're not interested in selling yours, I'm sure you don't care. The things that they cut out, with the exception of the scribble strips, are things that most guitarists do not care about. So, that said, I think most would be willing to go without scribble strips to save $500. There needs to be a bigger difference between the two products to warrant the price difference, and that is my point. This move by Line 6 does nothing more than show their greed and complete disregard for those who not only purchased their product, but sat on waiting lists for months to get one. Funny how there wasn't a word of this product even breathed until they were in stock and available everywhere. Why? They didn't want to lose Helix sales while they were producing and shipping these to retailers. They sure didn't waste any time hyping up Helix prior to release though, did they? I can say that this move has made me officially done with Line 6. Sad, because I have a Helix and Firehawk 1500 as my rig right now. Both are for sale, and I'll lose whatever I must to move them. Ok, rant over.

[requietus666]

do you indeed sincerely believe that Line6 would announce Helix like this: "hey, we have awesome new product. but wait, don't buy this one, because we have stripped down more affordable version coming in near future"... Really ?

[tmntshredder]

do you indeed sincerely believe that Line6 would announce Helix like this: "hey, we have awesome new product. but wait, don't buy this one, because we have stripped down more affordable version coming in near future"... Really ?

I don't really think that's what I said is it? I said that they didn't announce Helix LT at all until it was in stock at retailers. Please don't put words in my mouth. You are entitled to your opinion of the situation, but then again, you're not selling yours. I sincerely hope that you don't plan on it now unless you like losing money.

[requietus666]

I am sorry if I misinterpreted Your words.
I just felt like saying that every product or service has it's price nominated by seller or service provider, and the buyer buys the product not a product plus its lifetime support (and, man, we're speaking OS upgrades, not service tasks like broken input jacks).

[ChubbyJerk]

It's called good business. It's also fairly standard. Zoom's B1on and B1xon and MS60b and I think B3 all share the same software, rehoused and shipped off as a separate product. Same with many of their others (G3n & G5n, and on and on). Line 6 has the various M pedals (M9, M13, whatever). Several of the Boss multi-effects have the same core rehoused in various form factors.

 

They spent...what, hundreds of thousands or more on R&D for this, right? Several years of development. I have no clue how big their teams are, but both hardware and software engineers plus test engineers, all dedicated to this product line for years...that's a lot of money. It would be absolutely insane if they didn't leverage that for everything they could.

 

For the record (just to brag), I called this back in January. (I was expecting something a little lighter, but still pretty close.)

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/new-zoom-b3n-multi-effects.1262394/page-18#post-19650214

 

I'm a bit disappointed, because the Helix is overkill for me (particularly in the IO department), and the LT looks like a pretty good middle ground. I definitely would have picked the LT if it was out when I got mine. I don't hold it against them at all, though. Being angry over this is just silly. Of course they're trying to make money. And it's good for us if they do. I'd like them to make lots of money. That's what will lead to continued support for the Helix.

[jbuhajla]

I just bought a new pickup truck. I am not upset that there is a stripped down version for a portion of the cost, because I didn't want the stripped down version. 

 

Same for Helix. I would pay the extra $500 for scribble strips and extra connections/controls. Some wouldn't pay the extra $. That's why there are options, the same as car shopping. 

[tmntshredder]

I am sorry if I misinterpreted Your words.

I just felt like saying that every product or service has it's price nominated by seller or service provider, and the buyer buys the product not a product plus its lifetime support (and, man, we're speaking OS upgrades, not service tasks like broken input jacks).

I get it, really I do. I certainly expect Line 6 to release new products and even make more affordable ones. This type of move is something that's done when a product has reached the end of its lifespan, not a year after release. The product gets repackaged and marked down shortly before the release of the next thing. Sometimes a couple of small features are removed, sometimes they are not. Generally, the original is discontinued. Again, my point is that there needs to be a bigger difference in the products in this strategy. If that were the case, the two would have clear separation and there would be a decisive market for both. That's not the case here, and the consumers that bought the original are the ones the suffer the market repercussions. I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of Helix sales now go to Helix LT. It's a win for Line 6 and future buyers but not for us. Sorry, but that's how I see it.

[tmntshredder]

I just bought a new pickup truck. I am not upset that there is a stripped down version for a portion of the cost, because I didn't want the stripped down version.

 

Same for Helix. I would pay the extra $500 for scribble strips and extra connections/controls. Some wouldn't pay the extra $. That's why there are options, the same as car shopping.

Do you really believe that this is the same as car shopping? That's an interesting viewpoint but completely unrelated to guitar gear. It's not like they gave me an options list when I bought my Helix to pick and choose what I wanted. It would also be more similar had they brought both out at the same time.

[gunpointmetal]

If you don't need the other stuff, why did you buy a Helix and not an AX8?

Or a POD HD500X, or a Kemper, or etc etc etc...

.I'm glad they came out with a "stripped" version because it will get more people on the Helix engine, which means more likely longer support, more updates for amp models/algorithms, etc. 

[jbuhajla]

Do you really believe that this is the same as car shopping? That's an interesting viewpoint but completely unrelated to guitar gear. It's not like they gave me an options list when I bought my Helix to pick and choose what I wanted. It would also be more similar had they brought both out at the same time.

Absolutely. I am a simple guy, so I think in simple terms. 

 

The Chevy Silverado LTZ has all the bells and whistles: air conditioned seats, leather, wood trim, passing sensors, backup sensors, etc...

 

Chevey Silverado Work Truck, same engine/powertrain as the High country, just steel wheels, vinyl flooring, cloth seats, no sensors. 

 

Both the same under the hood, just different on the outside. 

 

Not the same as shopping for cars on the lot, sure. You don't have as many options. But you can compare truck LTZ/WT with Helix/Helix LT as a direct example. 

[bsd512]

For some reason I was thinking those had been discontinued, but I see one on GuitarCenter (not at SweetWater). I see a AMPLIFi TT Desktop though for $150 at Sweetwater. One of those may be the ticket. Neither of those can share patches with the Helix, though - but that would icing on the cake for my purposes, not really a hard requirement.

 

 

I went with the Amplifi TT. Got it today - form-factor is just about exactly what I was looking for, price was right, tone and capabilities perfectly acceptable for my "living room guitar fix" purposes. :) The only thing I wish it did was be an actual Helix inside and run my patches.

 

It'll be fine until such a day as Line 6 releases a Helix TT, and then I'll obviously buy one of those. :)

 

[Mudloop]

I get it, really I do. I certainly expect Line 6 to release new products and even make more affordable ones. This type of move is something that's done when a product has reached the end of its lifespan, not a year after release. The product gets repackaged and marked down shortly before the release of the next thing. Sometimes a couple of small features are removed, sometimes they are not. Generally, the original is discontinued. Again, my point is that there needs to be a bigger difference in the products in this strategy. If that were the case, the two would have clear separation and there would be a decisive market for both. That's not the case here, and the consumers that bought the original are the ones the suffer the market repercussions. I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of Helix sales now go to Helix LT. It's a win for Line 6 and future buyers but not for us. Sorry, but that's how I see it.

 

I get that you're a bit disappointed - I probably would have gone for the Lite version if it was out at the time when I purchased my Helix, and I'd have had an extra $500 to blow on some gear. More actually, because I have the Rack+Control. Or I may have just gone for the plugin, and saved even more money.

 

However, I don't believe that Line 6 should take the value of their products on the used market into account when developing and releasing new products. Clearly you thought the Helix was worth the money when you bought it. If you only bought it because you assumed that you could sell it for $X in the future, that's too bad, but ultimately not Line 6's responsibility, and that assumption was a bit of a gamble to begin with. Another company could have also released a much cheaper Helix killer, and that could have devaluated the Helix a bit as well.

[spikey]

 

 

I went with the Amplifi TT. Got it today - form-factor is just about exactly what I was looking for, price was right, tone and capabilities perfectly acceptable for my "living room guitar fix" purposes. :) The only thing I wish it did was be an actual Helix inside and run my patches.

 

It'll be fine until such a day as Line 6 releases a Helix TT, and then I'll obviously buy one of those. :)

 

 

 

 

Very nice setup bsd!  

[tmntshredder]

I get that you're a bit disappointed - I probably would have gone for the Lite version if it was out at the time when I purchased my Helix, and I'd have had an extra $500 to blow on some gear. More actually, because I have the Rack+Control. Or I may have just gone for the plugin, and saved even more money.

 

However, I don't believe that Line 6 should take the value of their products on the used market into account when developing and releasing new products. Clearly you thought the Helix was worth the money when you bought it. If you only bought it because you assumed that you could sell it for $X in the future, that's too bad, but ultimately not Line 6's responsibility, and that assumption was a bit of a gamble to begin with. Another company could have also released a much cheaper Helix killer, and that could have devaluated the Helix a bit as well.

I agree with a lot if what you're saying here. However, let's remember that Helix LT is not a new product. If it was, I would have zero complaints. Let's be honest here and admit that it's the same product produced for less so it can be sold for less. Yes, I believe that Helix is worth the money. It's an amazing product for the money, and that has never been a question in my mind. It's definitely not Line 6's responsibility to guarantee resale value for their products, but what they are doing here shows that they have no regard for it at all. That is unfortunate...

[Digital_Igloo]

It's definitely not Line 6's responsibility to guarantee resale value for their products, but what they are doing here shows that they have no regard for it at all. That is unfortunate...

If the concern is that Line 6—a business, after all—prioritizes existing and future users of the Helix platform over those few who've given up on it and left... Guilty as charged.

[PeterHamm]

If the concern is that Line 6—a business, after all—priorities existing and future users of the Helix platform over those few who've given up on it and left... Guilty as charged.

 

 

[Rocco_Crocco]

 

 

I went with the Amplifi TT. Got it today - form-factor is just about exactly what I was looking for, price was right, tone and capabilities perfectly acceptable for my "living room guitar fix" purposes. :) The only thing I wish it did was be an actual Helix inside and run my patches.

 

It'll be fine until such a day as Line 6 releases a Helix TT, and then I'll obviously buy one of those. :)

 

Nice guitar. What is it?

[tmntshredder]

If the concern is that Line 6—a business, after all—priorities existing and future users of the Helix platform over those few who've given up on it and left... Guilty as charged.

Interesting...To say that you don't care about the resale of your products is absurd. How does Helix LT show that you priority your existing customers? What about your consumers who may have to sell their Helix for let's say financial reasons or something out of their control? I guess you don't care about them either because they have "given up and left"? After all, they'll never buy one of your products again anyway, right? I would expect a more well thought out rebuttal from someone so highly regarded within the company. For what it's worth, DI, I think Helix is a great product. I've said that several times and never questioned it's value. I could understand your response a bit better if I was saying that I hated the product and wanted to sell it. I simply prefer a real amp and am going that direction. My budget does not allow me rebuild an analog rig without the sale of my Helix. I'd love to be able to have both, but that's out of the question for me. Maybe I can add the Helix Super LT to my rig when it's released. That should only be $500 and probably only be missing the expression pedal. I could also pick up a used Helix for about that price in about 6 months. Looks like I'll have some choices!

[taylorbeats]

You know-life is pretty damn good.. 

[regalpierot]

 

 

I went with the Amplifi TT. Got it today - form-factor is just about exactly what I was looking for, price was right, tone and capabilities perfectly acceptable for my "living room guitar fix" purposes. :) The only thing I wish it did was be an actual Helix inside and run my patches.

 

It'll be fine until such a day as Line 6 releases a Helix TT, and then I'll obviously buy one of those. :)

 

 

 

I see that setup gets you a lot of p***y :)

 

I've used the TT for about two years now, floorboard first then sold that (the 'two footswitch press' to bank up and down thing wrecks my head) and got the TT. I think it's an amazing practice tool and now that it too is a full USB audio interface and running at $150 it is amazing value. Agreed, if Line 6 ever release a TT version of a Helix preset player my credit card will immediate be called to action. 

[bsd512]

Very nice setup bsd!  

 

Thanks!

 

 

Nice guitar. What is it?

 

It's a Schecter Hellraiser Hybrid Solo-ii. It's a very nice guitar, plays great, I love it.

 

http://www.schecterguitars.com/guitars/hellraiser-hybrid-solo-ii-detail

 

I see that setup gets you a lot of p***y :)

 

I've used the TT for about two years now, floorboard first then sold that (the 'two footswitch press' to bank up and down thing wrecks my head) and got the TT. I think it's an amazing practice tool and now that it too is a full USB audio interface and running at $150 it is amazing value. Agreed, if Line 6 ever release a TT version of a Helix preset player my credit card will immediate be called to action. 

 

 

Ha - my captive audience. :)

 

Since I had an Amplifi 150 before the Helix I knew pretty much what to expect. And to my surprise, I pulled up the Amplifi app and all the tones I'd made for the '150 were still out there, just had to select one and go.

 

Still makes me appreciate how incredible the Helix is, though. While the Amplifi is a perfectly fine product and will be fine for this use case I'm using it for now, it's lightyears behind the Helix in terms of how it sounds. Not saying it's bad, it's not. I'm saying the Helix is *that* good. :)

[bsd512]

You know-life is pretty damn good.. 

 

First world problems.

 

One time, when our ISP was replacing copper with optical fiber, my teenager had to go almost a whole day without wifi. Agony. Pure agony.

[Digital_Igloo]

Interesting...To say that you don't care about the resale of your products is absurd. How does Helix LT show that you priority your existing customers? What about your consumers who may have to sell their Helix for let's say financial reasons or something out of their control? I guess you don't care about them either because they have "given up and left"? After all, they'll never buy one of your products again anyway, right? I would expect a more well thought out rebuttal from someone so highly regarded within the company. For what it's worth, DI, I think Helix is a great product. I've said that several times and never questioned it's value. I could understand your response a bit better if I was saying that I hated the product and wanted to sell it. I simply prefer a real amp and am going that direction. My budget does not allow me rebuild an analog rig without the sale of my Helix. I'd love to be able to have both, but that's out of the question for me.

 

Whoa—there's a huge difference between Prioritizing X and Not Caring About Y. Talk about putting words in one's mouth...

Honestly, what do you think Line 6 should've done?

• Not released Helix LT at all specifically so a few people can continue to sell their Helices for as much money as possible, which in turn means we sell fewer Helices because people are buying used ones instead?
• Emailed every user and said "Hey! Top secret! In two weeks, we're releasing a scaled down version for less money so if you're thinking about selling your Helix anytime soon, do it now!"?
• Sent you a check for the difference?

Look. It's totally cool if modeling isn't your bag and you prefer an amp and pedal rig. Everyone's on their own path to tonal bliss, and I'd never begrudge someone for selling their Helix if it didn't best fit their needs. But repeated complaints on Line 6's forum about the unfortunate bad timing of your personal Ebay/Craigslist/Reverb adventures—at the expense of thousands of guitarists who couldn't previously afford a Helix product but now maybe can—feels pretty misdirected, that's all.

[cruisinon2]

Whoa—there's a huge difference between Prioritizing X and Not Caring About Y. Talk about putting words in one's mouth...

Honestly, what do you think Line 6 should've done?

• Not released Helix LT at all specifically so a few people can continue to sell their Helices for as much money as possible, which in turn means we sell fewer Helices because people are buying used ones instead?
• Emailed every user and said "Hey! Top secret! In two weeks, we're releasing a scaled down version for less money so if you're thinking about selling your Helix anytime soon, do it now!"?
• Sent you a check for the difference?

Look. It's totally cool if modeling isn't your bag and you prefer an amp and pedal rig. Everyone's on their own path to tonal bliss, and I'd never begrudge someone for selling their Helix if it didn't best fit their needs. But repeated complaints on Line 6's forum about the unfortunate bad timing of your personal Ebay/Craigslist/Reverb adventures—at the expense of thousands of guitarists who couldn't previously afford a Helix product but now maybe can—feels pretty misdirected, that's all.

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. People are gonna b1tch no matter what you do...it's all part of the narcissism tsunami currently sweeping away the last vestiges of common sense.

 

"But what about ME! Every entity with which I interact must take my personal feelings into account before doing anything, because I'm special and I have NEEDS! And when those needs aren't met it is clearly someone else's fault. And they must all be named, blamed, and shamed...now excuse me, I have 3 other phony outrage targets to vilify this afternoon".

 

Boo-hoo. The sun will still rise tomorrow.