Future Helix 2

[PeterHamm]

4 hours ago, bypassvalve said:

 

amp in the room sound is ambient reflections, spatial cues your ears can pick up on to tell your brain what kind of a space you're in. the dual delay at the end, set on i think 7 and 8 ms. 1ms is like 1 foot, you can experiment with the size and mix, at 16% mix it's subtle but you can tell when it's gone

mic scout 84.hlx 6.85 kB · 1 download

It is not just that imho. It is the way that a guitar speaker moves air vs. the way that an FRFR does.

The delay has nothing to do with it if your FRFR and your "real amp" are the same distance from your ears.

[bypassvalve]

27 minutes ago, PeterHamm said:

if your FRFR and your "real amp" are the same distance from your ears

 

oh my bad, i was just referring to sound, you're referring to monitor system player response. Guitar string amplified connected to speaker is direct link, guitar string sent through converters and DSP and then driven by solid state chinese whatever tf, player response would fall short of a direct connection. I don't know if maybe they already fixed that issue with power cab, my next inquiry would be look into what kind of dynamics DSP do you put into the power section of the cheap solid state FRFR driver to mimic the amp power/transformer...latency aside, how do you make the class D amp and PA speaker POP like a direct connection between pickup and amp does. *pulls up power cab in sweetwater*

[Svenisak]

Well, the Helix was released in 2015 (if I'm right). That means that it's 5 years old! Five years is an eternity in the world of digital technology. CPU's have increaded in power and efficiency by leaps and bounds. RAM prices has plumeted.

 

Yes, Line6 is in the buisness of making money (naturally). However, what would earn the most money? Selling outdated technology or modern technology in their flagship products. Apple tried this, with the Trashintosh, and that didn't turn out so well. Did it?

 

I intend to buy a Helix. What's holding me back is the age of the current model. So, what would net Line6 the most money. Telling me when a new model is expected, and contine to hold out (buying the current model is not an option)? Or keeping silent and risking me growing tired and buying a competitors (modern) product instead?

 

I want to see the following improvements.

a) a newer CPU/DSP.

b) More RAM.

c) Blu-tooth connectivity. (Messing with Lighnting or USB cabels in 2021 is, simply, rediculous)

[phil_m]

7 hours ago, Svenisak said:

 

Well, the Helix was released in 2015 (if I'm right). That means that it's 5 years old! Five years is an eternity in the world of digital technology. CPU's have increaded in power and efficiency by leaps and bounds. RAM prices has plumeted.

 

Well, the Helix uses a specialized, purpose-built audio processors, not the same sort of processors and RAM found in laptops and such... (and I don’t really believe RAM prices have plummeted, fwiw... Seems about the same now as it was a few years ago).

 

7 hours ago, Svenisak said:

I intend to buy a Helix. What's holding me back is the age of the current model. So, what would net Line6 the most money. Telling me when a new model is expected, and contine to hold out (buying the current model is not an option)? Or keeping silent and risking me growing tired and buying a competitors (modern) product instead?

They aren’t going to announce a new product until it’s ready to be on the market. So you can either wait or buy something else in the meantime... It’s the same sort of the proposition with any technology-based item. Modeler development cycles just move much slower than standard consumer electronics, thankfully.

[PierM]

On 2/26/2021 at 10:50 AM, Svenisak said:

I want to see the following improvements.

a) a newer CPU/DSP.

b) More RAM.

c) Blu-tooth connectivity. (Messing with Lighnting or USB cabels in 2021 is, simply, rediculous)

 

If you need new and more, every other year, you should buy a new 2021 smartphone with Amplitube, or BiasFX. Professional audio equipment is a different market, thanks god (and still needs cables).

 

 

[codamedia]

On 2/26/2021 at 3:50 AM, Svenisak said:

I want to see the following improvements.

a) a newer CPU/DSP.

b) More RAM.

c) Blu-tooth connectivity. (Messing with Lighnting or USB cabels in 2021 is, simply, rediculous)

 

This is an inevitable move, but we have no idea when it will happen. 

 

What I do know is that my Helix is still going to sound great when a new product is released... I'll just have to reside to the fact that it might not get further updates. That's OK with me, because every update is a bonus.... I bought the unit based on what it had at the time I purchased it - which was a lot less than it has now :) 

[Svenisak]

On 2/26/2021 at 6:37 PM, phil_m said:

Well, the Helix uses a specialized, purpose-built audio processors.

 

I'm sure that the technology of all forms of processors (including purposebuilt) has developed.

 

On 2/27/2021 at 11:30 AM, PierM said:

Professional audio equipment is a different market, thanks god (and still needs cables).

I guess the Kemper Profiler Stage, is the closest competitor to the Helix. It's from 2019! 5-6  years is a long, long time. Even in the Professional Audio market. And NO! I don't want to be forced to buy the Kemper. I much prefer the Line6 technology.

 

I can control mixers, HD/SSD recorders, lights and other stuff wirelessly, so why not the Helix. Controlling the Helix, wirelessly, with a laptop (using the HX Edit app) or an iPad (with an iOS version of HX Edit) would be a killer feature.

[PierM]

2 hours ago, Svenisak said:

I can control mixers, HD/SSD recorders, lights and other stuff wirelessly, so why not the Helix. Controlling the Helix, wirelessly, with a laptop (using the HX Edit app) or an iPad (with an iOS version of HX Edit) would be a killer feature.

 

Data stream for editing is too big for BT, that's why we have no editors for tablets or smartphones. This is what a dev said about the subject.

[phil_m]

2 hours ago, Svenisak said:

On 2/27/2021 at 4:30 AM, PierM said:

 

I guess the Kemper Profiler Stage, is the closest competitor to the Helix. It's from 2019! 5-6  years is a long, long time. Even in the Professional Audio market. And NO! I don't want to be forced to buy the Kemper. I much prefer the Line6 technology.

It’s ironic you mention the Kemper Stage in this conversation. The Stage, as far as I know, is running the same processor as the Kemper toaster and Rack, and the Kemper toaster was released way back in 2011. Other than the form factor, the Stage isn’t really an upgrade to the original Kemper.

[kringle]

3 hours ago, Svenisak said:

 

I can control mixers, HD/SSD recorders, lights and other stuff wirelessly, so why not the Helix. Controlling the Helix, wirelessly, with a laptop (using the HX Edit app) or an iPad (with an iOS version of HX Edit) would be a killer feature.

 

Totally agree, I’d go so far as to say this is now mandatory of anything produced 2020 and beyond.  If they tried to push out a Helix 2 with no way to wirelessly have complete management over it then I’d wager it would be shredded in reviews and by the community. And something as high-end as a Helix will have to use high-speed WiFi as well, no crappy Bluetooth.

[codamedia]

4 hours ago, Svenisak said:

I guess the Kemper Profiler Stage, is the closest competitor to the Helix. It's from 2019! 5-6  years is a long, long time.

 

That statement is loaded with irony... but phil_m addresses this a couple posts above :)

IMO, the Quad Cortex is the product to keep an eye on at this time... it's from 2020/2021. 

[PeterHamm]

1 hour ago, kringle said:

 

Totally agree, I’d go so far as to say this is now mandatory of anything produced 2020 and beyond.  If they tried to push out a Helix 2 with no way to wirelessly have complete management over it then I’d wager it would be shredded in reviews and by the community. And something as high-end as a Helix will have to use high-speed WiFi as well, no crappy Bluetooth.

You mean the way that the latest Fractal product came with a Bluetooth feature that worked with a smartphone to edi-- Uh... never mind... oh yeah, it didn't...

Honestly, editing from a phone is an amateur feature more than a pro feature, and Helix is pro gear.

[Ilya-V]

5 hours ago, PeterHamm said:

Honestly, editing from a phone is an amateur feature more than a pro feature, and Helix is pro gear.

This.

Please keep bluetooth, ipads, iphones, iclouds, and all other obsolete-next-year toys far away from professional guitar gear.

[PierM]

BT is fine for wireless midi, as doesn't need drivers and it's not OS dependent. I do love BT Midi. If you don't have a too busy MIDI data flow, it will work flawless.

 

On the other hand, BT for editing pesets can be a PITA, because soon or later the editing app will stop running (or crash, or just being unstable) on new smartphones with new iOS (that are products with a WAY faster development because of the market request). You don't want this with pro hardware, believe me. Helix is great because you can easily edit everything from it's huge display, so on paper you don't even need a computer. That's just a plus for me. 

Firehawk, for example, was a good product and I still have one, but editing was for me totally unusable for more than a year, when the editing app stopped working properly because apple introduced a new iOS with new libraries. Editing firehawk from the display isn't any fun....

 

Why do I love my 20/30 years old pro gear? Because you can still use it, you don't need a 1980 personal boat anchor computer to editing its presets, or to flash its firmware. They just works the same as when they have been introduced.

[PierM]

What I hope for an Helix 2, other than just more DSP powa, is a profiling feature, similar to the one used by the TH-U (they call it Rig Models). The best sounding profiler on the market at the moment, IMHO. (well, as good as the Kemper, but way less expensive).

[Svenisak]

20 hours ago, PeterHamm said:

Honestly, editing from a phone is an amateur feature more than a pro feature, and Helix is pro gear.

Yeah? I guess that equipment like the Behringer WING console is meant for (very rich) amateurs! As a mater of fact, it's very common to have the capability of controlling professional equipment via BT these days!

 

As for the need to upgrade the processor. The models keep sounding better, but they also put more demands on the processing power. Before you know it a single amp model (and thothing else) will hog the entire Helix! I'm sure that Line6 is more than aware of this.

 

Soner or later they will update the Helix. Will it be sooner or later? I don't have enoght experience with Line6, so I don't know if they are a company that listens to it's customers, or not. But if they are, enought of us "demanding" a Helix 2 may speed things up a bit.

[PeterHamm]

1 hour ago, Svenisak said:

As a mater of fact, it's very common to have the capability of controlling professional equipment via BT these days!

 

If it is so common, perhaps you could list all these pro devices... (and Behringer isn't exactly high-end)

[PeterHamm]

1 hour ago, Svenisak said:

Yeah? I guess that equipment like the Behringer WING console is meant for (very rich) amateurs! As a mater of fact, it's very common to have the capability of controlling professional equipment via BT these days!

 

And doesn't the Wing connect via Ethernet to a WiFi network, not bluetooth, for wireless control?

[PierM]

As far as I know, the Wing doesnt have wireless at all. Just two LAN ports.

 

The X AIR XR18 has WiFi AP, but not really BT.

[codamedia]

6 hours ago, Svenisak said:

I guess that equipment like the Behringer WING console is meant for (very rich) amateurs!

 

Sorry if this offends... but that sums it up :) 

 

[HonestOpinion]

Connecting via Wi-Fi is a great solution and I hope it is included in the next generation. Just as long as they include Ethernet and USB connectivity as well. Not exactly analogous but I can attest that having run sound on mixing boards with Wi-Fi you want at least the option to have a hard wired connection available for when the Wi-Fi decides to drop or your tablet starts misbehaving right before a mic starts feeding back.

 

Getting past OS and USB issues would be a big win although Wi-Fi doesn't guarantee side-stepping problems with new versions of operating systems. Soundcraft mixing boards like the "Ui24r" found an interesting way to circumvent OS issues by having their remote app run within a browser using Wi-Fi. Don't know whether or not that approach would transfer data quickly enough to serve as an editor/interface for HX devices.

[gunpointmetal]

11 hours ago, HonestOpinion said:

Getting past OS and USB issues would be a big win although Wi-Fi doesn't guarantee side-stepping problems with new versions of operating systems. Presonus mixing boards like the "Ui24r" found an interesting way to circumvent OS issues by having their remote app run within a browser using Wi-Fi. Don't know whether or not that approach would transfer data quickly enough to serve as an editor/interface for HX devices.

 

If the Helix can host the software and operate in full function a browser editor would be dope, IMO. Definitely no Bluetooth, though. Bluetooth is a just fine audio transmission protocol for non-critical listening, but its bad for data or HQ audio. I'd like to see something along the lines of the cloud features coming to the Quad Cortex without the requirement of the cloud. Like if you come up with something cool at a rehearsal or a sound check you could hotspot off your phone or the locations' wi fi and upload your patch to your account and pull it down somewhere else. Or full backups via cloud so if you had to replace a unit you wouldn't have to be at your computer to restore your presets and IRs.

[Svenisak]

On 3/3/2021 at 5:19 AM, codamedia said:

 

Sorry if this offends... but that sums it up :) 

 

Well I guess that some has more money, that what's good for them! I wouldn't call a €3000 digital console exactly low-end. It's definitely not aimed for "amateurs". Sorry, if that bursts your bubble. Welcome to the real world.

[DunedinDragon]

1 hour ago, Svenisak said:

Well I guess that some has more money, that what's good for them! I wouldn't call a €3000 digital console exactly low-end. It's definitely not aimed for "amateurs". Sorry, if that bursts your bubble. Welcome to the real world.

 

Speaking of welcoming someone to the real world,  that's NOT BT on the WING, those are ethernet connections just like the ones on PCs or on almost all other digital mixers on the market nowadays and are used for remote control surfaces either over a direct LAN connection or via a WIFI...not BT.  The prescribed BT protocol doesn't provide enough flexibility nor high enough speed for two way interaction with remote control surfaces because that's not what it's really designed for.  But also bear in mind ALL of the digital mixer companies have had varying degrees of connectivity issues primarily due to the environments they work in.  My QSC TM-30, which is a direct competitor to the Behringer WING, is rock solid at home.  But in performance it has been affected by numerous things like neon lights, or long distances, or tablets that go to sleep and have to be rebooted in order to re-establish the two way interactive connection to the mixer.  I'm sure that could be overcome using a direct 802.11 connection, but I don't think I want to run an ethernet cable from the stage to the mixer.

I'm not saying I wouldn't like a WIFI connection to control the Helix, but in the environments we all tend to work in it's not the golden goose you might think it is.

Sorry if that bursts YOUR bubble.

[Nylander88]

On 5/27/2019 at 10:07 AM, mikefstewart said:

Total random, curious question.  I am likely to buy a Helix Floor in the next couple of months.  Been researching for too long now.  Thought about Kemper, Fractal or buying a tube amp, etc.  How long do you think it will be before Line 6 says we need a new Helix version, like a Helix 2?  Thanks

I say when they max out the capability's and have every single guitar effect, amp and cab, then they make a new series.

[codamedia]

3 hours ago, Svenisak said:

Well I guess that some has more money, that what's good for them! I wouldn't call a €3000 digital console exactly low-end. It's definitely not aimed for "amateurs". Sorry, if that bursts your bubble. Welcome to the real world.

 

I actually have no bubble to burst :) ... but I re-read my comment and admit it was completely uncalled for.

I try to stay away from making snarky comments rooted in opinion... obviously I failed on that day.  Sorry about that. 

[PierM]

Helix with firmware 3.0 and 3.1 is imho like an Helix 2. For me.

 

Before that firmware I was selling my rack. With 3.0/3.1 a tons of stuff I was searching for has been added, and now Im keeping it. Also bought a HX stomp just after 3.0 because now it's really a monster in a cigarbox format.

 

In all honestly, I only care of sound design and tone. I dont give a rat's a** of how old or new a DSP is. ;)

[theElevators]

The next Helix IMO will have:

 

1. quad core or 8 core processor

2. built-in wireless for guitar/in-ear/Variax?

3. touch screen/buttons that double as knobs, like on the Quad Cortex

4. wi-fi

5. be 1/2 the width and weight.  Maybe it'll have a kick stand lol to raise it at an angle. 

 

That's about it.  To me, in terms of sound, flexibility, snapshots, etc, Helix is more than enough.  I guess having a slimmer Helix would be an added bonus. 

[PierM]

9 hours ago, theElevators said:

The next Helix IMO will have:

 

1. quad core or 8 core processor

2. built-in wireless for guitar/in-ear/Variax?

3. touch screen/buttons that double as knobs, like on the Quad Cortex

4. wi-fi

5. be 1/2 the width and weight.  Maybe it'll have a kick stand lol to raise it at an angle. 

 

That's about it.  To me, in terms of sound, flexibility, snapshots, etc, Helix is more than enough.  I guess having a slimmer Helix would be an added bonus. 

 

No coffe machine?

 

Nah, I'm not gonna buy that s...t!

[PeterHamm]

10 hours ago, theElevators said:

The next Helix IMO will have:

 

1. quad core or 8 core processor

2. built-in wireless for guitar/in-ear/Variax?

3. touch screen/buttons that double as knobs, like on the Quad Cortex

4. wi-fi

5. be 1/2 the width and weight.  Maybe it'll have a kick stand lol to raise it at an angle. 

 

That's about it.  To me, in terms of sound, flexibility, snapshots, etc, Helix is more than enough.  I guess having a slimmer Helix would be an added bonus. 

Sorry, most of these very "amateur" features will never be in Helix, I'll bet.

 

[kringle]

On 5/16/2021 at 6:44 AM, PeterHamm said:

Sorry, most of these very "amateur" features will never be in Helix, I'll bet.

 

 

Wow, really a complete jerk-off response, clearly when you lept instantly from birth to seasoned professional the stardom went strait to your head...  you forgot about all us poor sucker amateurish noobs trying to make it or have fun.  Let us all just get out of your way mr. rock god... 

 

I must say that with you clearly being a professional... It's intriguing and honoring that you waste your time here with us nobody's on the forum.... so I guess we should say, Thank You?

[PeterHamm]

19 hours ago, kringle said:

 

Wow, really a complete jerk-off response, clearly when you lept instantly from birth to seasoned professional the stardom went strait to your head...  you forgot about all us poor sucker amateurish noobs trying to make it or have fun.  Let us all just get out of your way mr. rock god... 

 

I must say that with you clearly being a professional... It's intriguing and honoring that you waste your time here with us nobody's on the forum.... so I guess we should say, Thank You?

You misunderstand. Pro-level equipment will never have a built-in wireless for instance, because pros would avoid that product to use the one that will let them use the wireless of THEIR choice, rather than the one chosen for them.

There is NOTHING wrong with being amateur, but there is a completely different ideal feature set for a POD Go than for Helix.

Many of the other features you list have nothing to do with the sound or capability (such as touch-screen, tested and rejected because it was... wait for it... not preferred by the pro musician which Helix targets).

You inferred I was insulting you personally. I was not. I did not levy any personal attacks against you, as you did towards me, btw. Please keep it classy here.

[PierM]

21 hours ago, kringle said:

 

Wow, really a complete jerk-off response, clearly when you lept instantly from birth to seasoned professional the stardom went strait to your head...  you forgot about all us poor sucker amateurish noobs trying to make it or have fun.  Let us all just get out of your way mr. rock god... 

 

I must say that with you clearly being a professional... It's intriguing and honoring that you waste your time here with us nobody's on the forum.... so I guess we should say, Thank You?

 

Hmmm.

 

Pro grade stuff, doesn't mean you need to be a pro (a paid musician, nothing more than that) to use or want that stuff. In fact, probably more than 90% of customers of these devices are amateurs (a not paid musician, that's it. Not an insult, even if that same word has a pejorative meaning). Now, a paid musician, usually needs stuff he can trust on a stage (yeah, those are the tools of your job) - and things like wireless, BT, touchsceen, rotary footswitch (!) etc... aren't really that friendly sometimes (also the more hi-tech crap you squeeze into a pedal, the more the error/fail probability). 

Said that, the words amateur and professional, are not synonym of "untalented" and "great musician". It's just terms to separate the hobby from the job. At least I guess this is what Peter meant. 

 

Man, I know plenty of obscene guitar players, showing off 20K of rack on stage. Doesn't mean anything really.

 

Take care. :) 

[theElevators]

Hilarious....  Quad cortex is amateur hour karaoke equipment then... with the touch screen... wi-fi... small footprint, and buttons/knobs.  bwaaaaahaaahhahaaa.  Pros only use rack units.. and never ever ever any wireless systems. 

[PeterHamm]

8 hours ago, theElevators said:

Hilarious....  Quad cortex is amateur hour karaoke equipment then... with the touch screen... wi-fi... small footprint, and buttons/knobs.  bwaaaaahaaahhahaaa.  Pros only use rack units.. and never ever ever any wireless systems. 

Tons of professionals use wireless, in fact, every touring act that I've seen for decades. And tons of pros use the Helix Floor, too.

[cruisinon2]

12 hours ago, theElevators said:

...and never ever ever any wireless systems. 

 

Don't cherry pick partial comments and try and spin it into something that nobody actually said. Of course pros use wireless units... but not so much those that are integrated into other devices as a "Look what else it has!" selling point. They tend to use stand-alone units that can be added to any rig in the universe.

[datacommando]

8 hours ago, theElevators said:

Hilarious....  Quad cortex is amateur hour karaoke equipment then... with the touch screen... wi-fi... small footprint, and buttons/knobs.  bwaaaaahaaahhahaaa.  Pros only use rack units.. and never ever ever any wireless systems. 

Not sure what you are getting at because in another thread on here you say:

 

”Quad Cortex is pretty neat...but where the heck is the exp pedal?  It's missing (gasp!).  You need to buy an external one.  It has twice the processing power of the Helix... Wow!!!  But, have I ever felt that I am running out of DSP on a Helix?  Never!  Does a touch screen make sense?  It does if you want your piece of equipment to feel like a giant iPad.  Do you like integrated buttons/knobs?  They'll probably break faster than dedicated buttons, same for the touch screen.  Do you like having an editor on your computer (Helix), or do you prefer to edit things on a giant iPad-looking thing that can connect to WiFi?”

Mmm... I’m confused, because your list of ideas for a Mk2 Helix looks quite a lot like a QC clone - that ain’t gonna happen.

 

 

 

[theElevators]

Im imagining what helix 2 will be like, not saying it’s good progress. For example, all cell phones will have 5G capability in the next year or 2, doesn’t mean that that’s something I want or need. 

[PierM]

9 hours ago, theElevators said:

Hilarious....  Quad cortex is amateur hour karaoke equipment then... with the touch screen... wi-fi... small footprint, and buttons/knobs.  bwaaaaahaaahhahaaa.  Pros only use rack units.. and never ever ever any wireless systems. 

 

Not sure if you're trolling or just 15 years old.

 

Im sure we will see plenty of paid musicians using QC, as well using any other pedal in the market. This doesnt change the fact there is tour grade and studio grade hardware, and then there is all the rest. Is not a Good vs Bad wannabe contest for kids. Again, doesnt mean Bonamassa wont use a 50$ Boss DD3, or whatever rock god you like wouldnt and shouldnt use anything than tour grade racks. There are iphones, which arent deisgned specifically to make movies, but you can do it. Doesnt tell anything about how good or bad that movie will be, or how good or bad that director is. Maybe they will bring 5 iPhones on the set, as a backup, instead just a Panaflex 35mm, or a RED Dsmc2...but everything is possible with today average quality and standards. Still, the more technology you squeeze into a single small pedal, the more the parts, more the code, more the shortcuts, more the current draw and heat, higher the number of parts that could fail etc... That's it. Is that hard to understand?

 

Why people tends to feel so judged for everything? 

 

 

[theElevators]

45 minutes ago, datacommando said:

Not sure what you are getting at because in another thread on here you say:

 

”Quad Cortex is pretty neat...but where the heck is the exp pedal?  It's missing (gasp!).  You need to buy an external one.  It has twice the processing power of the Helix... Wow!!!  But, have I ever felt that I am running out of DSP on a Helix?  Never!  Does a touch screen make sense?  It does if you want your piece of equipment to feel like a giant iPad.  Do you like integrated buttons/knobs?  They'll probably break faster than dedicated buttons, same for the touch screen.  Do you like having an editor on your computer (Helix), or do you prefer to edit things on a giant iPad-looking thing that can connect to WiFi?”

Mmm... I’m confused, because your list of ideas for a Mk2 Helix looks quite a lot like a QC clone - that ain’t gonna happen.

 

 

 

I use the editor for that reason!  Hx edit, standing desk for the laptop. Nothing better.