TheRealZap Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 essentially it's in beta mode... the hardware has been excessively engineered, and most things in it are digitally controlled so they can be changed after the fact. So, in computer terms... It is in beta mode? Which still seems a little scary. Software can be updated for years after purchase. But hardware can not. The production process would be all about hardware. So, if the unit is still being tested, then you could just as easily find hardware issues -- which means production has to cease and the already made units need replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leesteel Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 It can't be BETA,,,, They have already tooled up for the housing and the displays have been manufactured. This unit has been in the queue, dare I suggest, for well over a year. You don't just tool up and design circuit boards to support this kind of device for a beta test. The software might still be in BETA mode but the hardware is a done deal. So, in computer terms... It is in beta mode? Which still seems a little scary. Software can be updated for years after purchase. But hardware can not. The production process would be all about hardware. So, if the unit is still being tested, then you could just as easily find hardware issues -- which means production has to cease and the already made units need replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smrybacki Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Can someone move this thread to the Helix sub forum? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianoguyy Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 :blink: Who the hell needs 24 houses ? My BS detector is off the scale on that one. :huh: That's because you missed the last part -- where I said I would make enough profit to buy a Helix. Meaning, keep one in each residence and sell the rest. Buy the helix with the profit. And, yes, I have multiple 'homes'. Although, some of them are not homes. For example, I have 4 places in Nashville. One is mine that I bought so I could get away from work without needing to leave the area. One is provided by the network, my neighbors are all cast and crew. The 3rd is on set, it is more like an office that I crash in when I work late and need to work early. And the 4th is a 'bachelor' pad, in the city where I 'entertain' after a night of partying. Obviously, I don't need a pod in all four of those. And I don't have 4 homes in every city I work in. But, yes, if I do regular business somewhere, I find it easier to have a permanent place to go, rather than a hotel. Especially if it is an extended stay. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealZap Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Yes hardware is done. It can't be BETA,,,, They have already tooled up for the housing and the displays have been manufactured. This unit has been in the queue, dare I suggest, for well over a year. You don't just tool up and design circuit boards to support this kind of device for a beta test. The software might still be in BETA mode but the hardware is a done deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozbadman Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 In embedded products, like the HELIX, the hardware is usually locked down either in or before Alpha testing. Once it's Beta testing, it's pretty rare for the hardware to change and is really about tweaking and testing the edges of the software. That being said, if some features are still not locked down it's probably halfway between Alpha and Beta testing. So yeah, Beta testing is probably a relatively accurate description of it's current status. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianoguyy Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 It can't be BETA,,,, They have already tooled up for the housing and the displays have been manufactured. This unit has been in the queue, dare I suggest, for well over a year. You don't just tool up and design circuit boards to support this kind of device for a beta test. The software might still be in BETA mode but the hardware is a done deal. That was the point I was making. But it has since been explained. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozbadman Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 And you're going to have to change your tag at the bottom of your posts. It talks about HD500Edit. That's soooo last week. :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealZap Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 the release features are locked, which is why the product can be shown as is... doesn't mean that there aren't bugs and use cases to look into.... (or continued development into post release features...) In embedded products, like the HELIX, the hardware is usually locked down either in or before Alpha testing. Once it's Beta testing, it's pretty rare for the hardware to change and is really about tweaking and testing the edges of the software. That being said, if some features are still not locked down it's probably halfway between Alpha and Beta testing. So yeah, Beta testing is probably a relatively accurate description of it's current status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozbadman Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 the release features are locked, which is why the product can be shown as is... doesn't mean that there aren't bugs and use cases to look into.... (or continued development into post release features...) Oh. Cool. I was under the impression they were still finalising Amps to be included in the initial release, but in fairness, I know as close to nothing as possible. Just trying to glean as much as I can from the information that's out so far. ps: I love what seems like a brushed metal finish on it. Top notch look. pps: not loving the look of the EXP pedal, but I'm sure I'll live with it. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealZap Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 well so far they've only promised a specific number of amps and not specific ones... so they could change them... or come out with more etc... I think that Digital Igloo is compiling a list suitable for release... he wants to make sure that all the copyright disclaimers and acknowledgments are properly notated. Oh. Cool. I was under the impression they were still finalising Amps to be included in the initial release, but in fairness, I know as close to nothing as possible. Just trying to glean as much as I can from the information that's out so far.ps: I love what seems like a brushed metal finish on it. Top notch look.pps: not loving the look of the EXP pedal, but I'll live with it. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Arkadin Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Can someone move this thread to the Helix sub forum? Give us a chance, the sub forum's only just gone up! 😅 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NucleusX Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Looks like I'm buying it. I can't seem to let it go. Thinking about it all night lol. I think patience or procrastination is a good thing when something new like this gets released. It will undoubtedly have its teething issues initially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozbadman Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I think patience or procrastination is a good thing when something new like this gets released. It will undoubtedly have its teething issues initially. Yeah. I was an early adopter on the HD500 and JTV59. A few teething problems for sure, but I expected that. Line 6's QA in recent years hasn't been the best, maybe due to pushing out products before they were quite ready. Hopefully Yamaha has had some influence here, as it was the one thing lacking in the Line 6 products. Customer Support and wanting to do things right by the customer has covered the QA holes a little, so top marks for L6 there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinDorr Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Doesn't say if new amp models or same HD ones. The new fx would be nice. I didn't see a power switch though.... ;) Looks pretty awesome. Too expensive for me to play bar gigs with. I thought i saw a power switch right under the power cable receptacle - maybe wishful thinking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_m Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 If you didn't see the power switch, you weren't looking close enough... Definitely there. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital_Igloo Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 2.3 x the power of an HD500X in a dual APU\DSP format will make for some nice tweaking possibilities One of our top DSP gurus corrected me this morning. It's closer to 2.45x the DSP of HD500X. Some of the posts I see seem to imply that the thing isn't even done being designed. Which means, how would anyone be able to review it. And certainly, there would be no OM for it yet. The OM is going out for translation today, so features are all but completely locked in for 1.0. Helix will ship with a full color 11x17" Cheat Sheet that should get anyone up and running in minutes. The full manual is a PDF found on an included USB flash drive. (We needed the ability to improve/tweak things at the last second, and printing schedules preclude that.) As soon as I'm allowed to share the OM, I will. There are a couple more obscure features that may not make it into 1.0, and legally, the manual has to be 99.9% accurate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevevnicks Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 like i have said the helix is good news for us new to line 6 products and after being impressed with and getting into the HD500 at a late stage of its life cycle, i am also impressed with how long line 6 have supported the device if the above is anything to go by then the helix is just what i want +1 line 6 this is around the spec i was talking about a little while back to supersede the current HD500X im impressed with the style and lay out of helix to .. so happy dayz ahead for me at least :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandinq Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Two more questions popped into my head, (even as I earlier proclaimed that I wouldn't be buying it): 1. Can the XLR and 1/4" have different output modes, as in studio for one and amp for another? 2. Has the looper been upgraded, or the same basic one as the HD had? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealZap Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 1. kind of sort of yes and kind of sort of no.... there are no output modes... but yes you can send different things out different outputs... as in omit the mic emulation on your amp feed but include it on your FOH feed. 2. same basic operation currently... BUT it's not done yet... and you can disable it, it's stereo (60sec) or mono (120sec) and you can place it anywhere you want in your signal path. Two more questions popped into my head, (even as I earlier proclaimed that I wouldn't be buying it): 1. Can the XLR and 1/4" have different output modes, as in studio for one and amp for another? 2. Has the looper been upgraded, or the same basic one as the HD had? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingsCool Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Our economy (and a company's reputation) used to be built on the quality and longevity of products...but that only worked while technology was little more than stagnant. Now planned obsolescence is the new normal... :P When was that??? I'm pretty sure that American cars were rusting out in a couple years since day one, and it was only the introduction of the higher quality Japanese cars in the 80's that changed that... In my experience, planned obsolescence is actually less prevelant now, or rather, products are designed to last longer today than they ever have been. Heck, lots of people out there still using their L6 XT's or whatever they are as far as I can tell.... #justsayin'.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxnew40 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 When was that??? I'm pretty sure that American cars were rusting out in a couple years since day one, and it was only the introduction of the higher quality Japanese cars in the 80's that changed that... In my experience, planned obsolescence is actually less prevelant now, or rather, products are designed to last longer today than they ever have been. Heck, lots of people out there still using their L6 XT's or whatever they are as far as I can tell.... #justsayin'.... Another example is televisions. I haven't had a TV die on me for many years. We end up replacing a TV because of technology changes (HD, Flat Screen, and so on) not because there was anything wrong with our old Cathode Ray Tube TV. -Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CipherHost Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 When was that??? I'm pretty sure that American cars were rusting out in a couple years since day one, and it was only the introduction of the higher quality Japanese cars in the 80's that changed that... In my experience, planned obsolescence is actually less prevelant now, or rather, products are designed to last longer today than they ever have been. Heck, lots of people out there still using their L6 XT's or whatever they are as far as I can tell.... #justsayin'.... More so in the first half of the the 20th century, but... You can't compare apples to oranges, i.e., fenders made of metal to fenders made of plastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice9mike Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I submitted an ideascale request for the DT amp backwards compatibility. Please vote for it: http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/DT-amp-compatibility-for-Helix/726817-23508?submitted=1 Thanks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NucleusX Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 As soon as I'm allowed to share the OM, I will. There are a couple more obscure features that may not make it into 1.0, and legally, the manual has to be 99.9% accurate. I knew there had to be one eventually, thanks for the clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 When was that??? I'm pretty sure that American cars were rusting out in a couple years since day one, and it was only the introduction of the higher quality Japanese cars in the 80's that changed that... In my experience, planned obsolescence is actually less prevelant now, or rather, products are designed to last longer today than they ever have been. Heck, lots of people out there still using their L6 XT's or whatever they are as far as I can tell.... #justsayin'.... Just because something still functions, doesn't mean that it isn't obsolete. I've still got an old tube TV in the basement...20+ years old and still works. It even survived my rather uncivilized college years. But the picture is horrendous by today's standards. By contrast, the last flat screen I replaced lasted 5 or 6 years tops. Just died one day. No point in trying to fix it, as it was already way behind the tech curve...even if parts are available, it's never gonna be cost effective to do. This is not an accident. It's a business plan. Next to the TV is an ancient Mac with the tiny black and white screen and a hard drive with all of 5 MB of space, lol. It still works too, but obviously is of no practical use anymore. Can't tell you how many laptops and desktop PCs I've plowed through in the intervening years. Some failed in spectacular fashion at inopportune moments, others ground to a slow halt, but none lasted more than 3 maybe 4 years...no matter how nice I was to them. Cars may have improved some, yes. But as far as I'm concerned, most consumer electronics are designed to $#!? the bed after a relatively short period of time, so they can sell you the next "big" thing. And any company that isn't pumping out new and better product on a regular basis will be quickly forgotten by a generation with a Playstation attention span. We're so conditioned to want the newest version of everything, that nothings needs to last very long. Most people will happily dispose of something that still works 6 months after they bought it because the "new" version was just released. Apple has made it an art form, and they're laughing all the way to the bank...people stand in line for days, make appointments...why? To buy a friggin' WATCH. It's comical. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cclement Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Does Sweetwater charge extra for the bug on the screen - (13:25 - 13:58)? ;) in case anyone missed it on the other thread.... nice review/overview... goes through some of the menus and models. https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=619&v=yAGDCCdWjoQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inerzia Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 I'm already saving for it (that means what I've actually done is rearranging my list) and will probably be an early adopter,as I did with the XTLive, 11 years ago.This time I'm buying EVERYTHING I wanted a POD to be, and much more, in a single piece of gear.Will I hit the DSP limit? Sure, eventually, but not as soon as with the HD500.That DSP limit didn't stop me from getting all kinds of good tones out of it, though... All those I/Os! I've been imagining all sorts of crazy routings since I saw them Soon we'll hopefully have demos by Sean Halley, Paul Hindmarsh, Joost Vergoossen, and other insiders...Then Glenn DeLaune... and the inevitable "Line6 Helix - Metal" by Ola Englund will follow :D 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian6string Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Sweetwater posted a pretty good video Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tearitupbaby Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 i dont need one now...i mean i am a bedroom hobby player...but it looks interesting...this is not a hd500x killer..its in a diff price range...as far as the dt amps thing they will likely be coming out with a whole new amp for use with this unit....dt2 or something similar...i mean why not?...people cant expect a 5yr old unit to still be supported by new tech..its unrealistic....i would bet that the whole hz is the new game for line 6..meaning the helix is the topdog and eventually it will trickle down to the masses who cant afford 1500.00....so like a hz600 then hz600x...or something like that..as well as spyderhelix amps like the bogner stuff but with hz preamps.....i mean if i was line 6 this would be my direction...let the helix come out and see how many bite and wait for the magazine reviews and saturate the market with hype and then release the cheaper versions for people who cannot afford the 1500.00......phase out the hd line and replace with hz....EVERY COMPANY does this....korg did it with the triton to the kronos....rolands did it with fantom keyboards..ect ect....fender with cybertwin to the mustang....its progress....more bells and whistles..more power..more more more.....i still use the korg m3 keyboard which i like alot and sounds killer..i also have the kronos which is different and has like 9 synth engines and is cool but not "better" to me....I like the hd500x alot and with the dt25 its sweet...i still use my vox older valvetronix vtx 120 and 150 amps and they sound killer...as does my old tonelabs se and le....just not worth selling that stuff and losing so much money when they still sound great.....i am sure the helix will sound great too..i like line 6 and have their spidervalve 2 amp which i think sounds great too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsto10 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Sean Halley is demoing the Helix RIGHT NOW at Sweetwaters Gear Fest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMaben Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 ....i would bet that the whole hz is the new game for line 6..meaning the helix is the topdog and eventually it will trickle down to the masses who cant afford 1500.00... Yep, this is new technology aimed more at professionals and fanatics (I mean that in a nice way) than hobbyists, which I would imagine is their largest customer segment. This unit has waaaay more tweakability, power and capacity than I could ever put to good use (I have an HD500, JTV69, a TT and an old Spider Jam). They'd be insane not to simplify this unit and lower the price appropriately. It looks interesting but I think I'll wait for the inevitable 'consumer' unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tearitupbaby Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 agree....i would love to see a vintage amp/rock version and a metal verson(not for me).....say with 10 amps which would be enough for me..it would be cool if you could get a cheaper one with say half the amount of amps geared to classic rock and vintage amps(for me) as well as metal for hardcore guys.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartnettle1 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Looks and sounds great. Here is an indepth look Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dramey Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I've been very disapointed with the HD 500 section of my Dream Rig. I've had it for years and I doubt I have 10 hours total played on it. No reamp capabilities without jumping through hoops. It wouldnt play nice with my old audio interface drivers I literaly had to unplug it when I wanted to record something. I just bought a Focusrite and haven't checked to see if it plays any nicer. The lack of a power switch (yeah I know, but it was a thing). It was a pita to program, and honestly none of the presets did anything for me. Granted I haven't even messed with it in a year or two, so things could have gotten better. Now the Helix looks like it's doing everything right. Reamping, check, a power switch, much easier to program, and a built in audio interface so no fighting over drivers. I'm going to start saving my pennies now, but will be waiting on some early adopter reviews. It's mostly going to come down to how good the interface section is. Right off the bat I wish it had more than one mic input for my stereo condensers, but I can probably work around that. I'm putting my HD 500 on the block today, if I can sell my Focusrite too, it's going to be a lot easier to justify the purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joel_brown Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I see the Helix putting a serious dent into AXE and Kemper sales. If they put out something similar to the Bean for under a grand I'll consider one. $1500 is a little too much for me since the current PODHD works just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arislaf Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I've been very disapointed with the HD 500 section of my Dream Rig. I've had it for years and I doubt I have 10 hours total played on it. No reamp capabilities without jumping through hoops. It wouldnt play nice with my old audio interface drivers I literaly had to unplug it when I wanted to record something. I just bought a Focusrite and haven't checked to see if it plays any nicer. The lack of a power switch (yeah I know, but it was a thing). It was a pita to program, and honestly none of the presets did anything for me. Granted I haven't even messed with it in a year or two, so things could have gotten better. Now the Helix looks like it's doing everything right. Reamping, check, a power switch, much easier to program, and a built in audio interface so no fighting over drivers. I'm going to start saving my pennies now, but will be waiting on some early adopter reviews. It's mostly going to come down to how good the interface section is. Right off the bat I wish it had more than one mic input for my stereo condensers, but I can probably work around that. I'm putting my HD 500 on the block today, if I can sell my Focusrite too, it's going to be a lot easier to justify the purchase. Dude, pod Hd has built in audio inteface, it is my sound card 5 years already.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tearitupbaby Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 if anyone has a link to music store coupons for a better price please post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CipherHost Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 if anyone has a link to music store coupons for a better price please post I called GC yesterday to see what kind of deal I could work out or if there was a code or coupon I could use to pre-order the Helix. What I was told is she did not know beforehand of every deal coming down the pike, but that August is usually a month that GC has discount deals on equipment over $XXX so if I was willing to forgo being one of the first people to get one I could wait. She also was going to check on the total of pre-orders to see what that number was but could not until after the weekend. I believe she said GC was only getting 40 units for all GCs across the country. Only a select set of stores would actually get them in store at first (NY, Atlanta, and a California location). Others would be shipped from their warehouse when ordered. That's the latest I have found out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tearitupbaby Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 ok thanx....i expect 15 % to be the max off at most stores...maybe 20 if you r lucky in the future.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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