Hasn't Line 6 learned?

[Lachdanan0121]

I've edited your post from a different perspective to answer your 'Why' question.

I'd have to say that is a false equivalency as the influence, and consequences have never been anywhere near equal. Especially in dealing with the fraud aspect.

 

But I don't mean to offend as it is just a truthful statement.

 

Now on to the OP, and his issue.

 

 

So eagerly, I alongside possibly thousands of other faithful Line 6 users downloaded the "latest and greatest" update 2.10 only to be disappointed in the "schemozzle" of the Expression pedal being unusable and the presets sounding completely different!!

As a professional musician I rely on dependabilty and predictability of my equipment to ensure my audience is pleased.

The new update is a disgrace. So much so I am hoping that I can roll back to 2.01 and get my tones back.

This new update has clearly not been tested by working/gigging  musicians and it seems to me  has been released for "Thanksgiving" to "Please" the "I want something now crowd"  !!! It is no wonder Line 6 has a bad reputation with some musicians.

Line 6 If you are  going to update Helix or any Line 6 product  GET IT RIGHT or don't dot it !!!!!

 

 

The global settings is more than likely where your problem lies.  I noticed I had to reset input PAD options, XLR out was set to LINE, but I prefer a MIC level going to my studio monitors as they are freaking loud.  I don't use a Global EQ, but may do, and some seem to set it and forget it. So you could double check that. 

 

OR it could simply be an IR ordering issue.

 

If it is the factory presets that you needed, you could try the following:

 

Load up a previous FW, back up those factory presets. (I assume this is possible, I wouldn't see a reason why it isn't)

Then load up the new FW, and load the original factory presets into a user defined folder. 

 

As for things sounding different since the new FW, I cannot confirm, or deny. I haven't used it enough since I updated to give an answer with merit on that. 

Though I would think that Line 6 would have a statement for that, or something. 

 

However, you would have your problem solved faster if your more specific about your issues, and less relying on calling people slugs, and trying to put down bedroom players as that has no bearing on the talent, or potential in relation to you. You know some just don't want the headache of touring at all. But that is another conversation. 

[HonestOpinion]

First thought in my mind as well - if the OP is as "pro" as he implies (a vague question-begging term at best), with dozens of imminent gigs, why wouldn't he have a second unit?  I'm semi-pro these days (admittedly my band doesn't go out the door for less than $2500+, I'm a well paid part timer) and when I decided the Helix was my baby I found a good deal on a return - I leapfrog them as regards updates, never doing B until I've verified A.

 

I dunno - different strokes.....

 

$2500+ per gig, nicely done sir! You must be a wedding band, business events, or touring national/international act. That is decent money! Need a second guitarist? Just kidding...  :D

[zooey]

If one's presets sound notably different after updating, it's because they didn't redo their global settings the same way or didn't load their IRs into the right locations.

OK, that's great to know -- no intentional changes to the sound of existing presets, and nothing similar uncovered in testing.

[ricstudioc]

$2500+ per gig, nicely done sir! You must be a wedding band or touring national/international act. That is decent money! Need a second guitarist? Just kidding...  :D

Yeah, wedding/corporate/function stuff.  I'm a hooker - but I'm a well paid, penthouse hooker.  None of the on-your-knees-for-$20-in-an-alley stuff.

 

The old punchline - "We've already determined what you are, now we're just haggling over price." :o

 

Actually, I'll be leaving the project after the turn of the year, we've been rehearsing/overlapping gigs with my replacement for a while now.  Just tired of the same old after 4-5 years with the project, don't really need the money - and time is marching along, I'm getting older.  I have a VERY capable studio in my home that I never find time for - enough room to record full bands - and while I can still play for a damn I want to spend some time returning to the creative side of things.  Music for the simple joy of it - I've been missing that for too long.

[johnonguitar]

First thought in my mind as well - if the OP is as "pro" as he implies (a vague question-begging term at best), with dozens of imminent gigs, why wouldn't he have a second unit? I'm semi-pro these days (admittedly my band doesn't go out the door for less than $2500+, I'm a well paid part timer) and when I decided the Helix was my baby I found a good deal on a return - I leapfrog them as regards updates, never doing B until I've verified A.

 

I dunno - different strokes.....

To be honest I go for redundancy rather than duplicate.

 

I dont think my conscious (wallet) would allow for a second Helix!

[d0stenning]

 I don't think I'm a fraudster...

 

 Er no ...   Crowdster - maybe 

[silverhead]

I'd have to say that is a false equivalency as the influence, and consequences have never been anywhere near equal. Especially in dealing with the fraud aspect.

.... 

 

I think the comparison is fair. I'm not talking about religion itself here, just musicians who play religious music. I think death metal players and P&W players might have about equal influence and consequences within their respective audiences. Neither are fraudsters because of the type of music they play, nor are they any more or less musicians because of it. Both types of players have legitimate 'jobs' in the music business whether or not any particular individual likes the musical style.

[glideman]

I just use my Kemper if I fry my Helix, and vice versa...

 

Don't be hatin on the P&W... I do part time pro, as well as P&W the weekends.

[Guitarmaniac64]

If one's presets sound notably different after updating, it's because they didn't redo their global settings the same way or didn't load their IRs into the right locations.

 

 

The first thing i do after an update is 9-10 footswitch of course then i load in my setlists and my IR,s which is nowadays in different folders on my PC i have 3Sigma in one folder Ownhammer in one folder and Redwires in one folder Helix Custom Presets (FB site) and Fremen IR,s in one folder and acoustic IR,s in one folder i also rename them so they start with 001-128 so it is dead easy to change them whenever i like i also have a folder that i use for testing purposes not numbered of course.

 

I also do the 10-11 footswitch which will restore every preset so it works with new firmware and when 2.0 came out i also did the 5-6 footswitch (not really needed as that only restore the globals) and then i change all global settings to what it was before

 

First i make sure pad is on for my guitars and then i use xlr out mic instead of line as it even with the volym on 12 o clock will overload my audiointerface..

I never use global EQ i rather EQ the presets instead..

 

But sometimes some settings isnt available anymore or changed as the guitar in-z but my guess is that those changes are not really some setting that change any sound.

What if i had set guitar input-z to say 70k ohm and NOT do the 10-11 fs when booting up after a firmware update will Helix remember that setting in that preset?

[Digital_Igloo]

But sometimes some settings isnt available anymore or changed as the guitar in-z but my guess is that those changes are not really some setting that change any sound.

What if i had set guitar input-z to say 70k ohm and NOT do the 10-11 fs when booting up after a firmware update will Helix remember that setting in that preset?

 

The FS9/10 reset, you mean? If you don't do the reset, Helix could potentially unleash demons from Wal•Mart and eat your loved ones.

 

If one follows the update instructions, any Guitar In-Z parameters should recall correctly, as they're now part of the Input block.

[Lachdanan0121]

I think the comparison is fair. I'm not talking about religion itself here, just musicians who play religious music. I think death metal players and P&W players might have about equal influence and consequences within their respective audiences. Neither are fraudsters because of the type of music they play, nor are they any more or less musicians because of it. Both types of players have legitimate 'jobs' in the music business whether or not any particular individual likes the musical style.

Ah I see what you mean more clearly then. 

Yes, if you remove the religion aspect itself then it largely removes what I was referring to, and does move it closer to the same realm. 

 

But it doesn't completely as the message in P&W is to be taken all too seriously, so the influence there is quite a bit more still. Kinda hard to remove that aspect from it. 

 

However, we digress lol.

[Guitarmaniac64]

The FS9/10 reset, you mean? If you don't do the reset, Helix could potentially unleash demons from Wal•Mart and eat your loved ones.

 

If one follows the update instructions, any Guitar In-Z parameters should recall correctly, as they're now part of the Input block.

No i mean 10-11

9-10 is essential and is a must after every update so is save your setlist and IR before you update..

 

I have seen many post saying their presets isnt the same as before what happened?

And then someone answer and wrote "oh it was the same for me but i did a reboot and held down fs 10-11 as it will rebuild your presets"

So i started to do that after i load in my own presets again

I dont know if it is needed though but why not?

[NerdOfTheYear]

There are very good reasons why we can't do it right now, but it'll all make sense in 2017.

 

This really excites me.

[silverhead]

...

The new update is a disgrace. ....

So, back to the original post/poster........

 

After rectifying any issues with IRs and global settings, are you still experiencing problems with the update? If so, please give details and perhaps we can help.

[datacommando]

Helix could potentially unleash demons from Wal•Mart and eat your loved ones.

 

Abandon hope all ye who enter here! - or summink like that!

[spikey]

but it'll all make sense in 2017

 

 

Tis velly VELLY interesting DI. You know, Vee have vays of making you talk! 

[isdirg1]

Thanks to Hefonthefjords (this person is a genius) I was able to regain my presets sounds and functionality as well as my sanity after resetting every preset and snapshot.

My original post was made because Line 6 have made this same mistake of "bugs" in the system on every update they have released and was aimed at no-one in particular and if you took offence then the "cap must have fitted". A sincere thanks also goes out to all of you who offered serious help. Now I'm off to earn my living.

[spikey]

was aimed at no-one in particular and if you took offence then the "cap must have fitted".

 

Really isdirg1, thats not much of an apology if that was what you intended. Cap must be fitted? From what I read most were biting their virtual tongues and trying to help you. Im glad you did get some help.

[bsd512]

Agree that better IR management would be a big plus, lots discussion of that in various threads.

 

Suggest a 3-digit prefix, 2 isn't enough for all the IR slots.

 

Maybe straying a bit off-topic but what the heck ...

 

In the meantime until Line 6 comes up with a better approach to IR management, I've gone a different route - I don't necessarily recommend it for everyone, but it works for me and because I can. :)

 

I wrote a program to automatically update my presets to reflect changes to my onboard Helix IR list.

 

I have a "staging" directory where I drag the IRs I want loaded into the Helix.  Then I just drag the whole list at once into the Helix in file system order, which the Helix preserves on import.

 

At any given time, all my presets reference their respective IRs appropriately.  The Helix presets are exported as 'json' files and the IR blocks are identifiable within them as are their slot numbers/indexes.

 

So I when I add any new IRs I just save the current IR list of files in the staging directory and make a new staging directory where the old+new IR's go in whatever filesystem order they happen to be.  Now I've got two lists - the old IR order and the new IR order + any new IRs.  Then on the Helix, I clear out the old IRs, and load in all the new ones which may be an entirely different order than before, i.e., lots of slot numbers may have changed.

 

I then export the presets to some other directory.  Then with my program I wrote, that loads in all of my exported presets, and the two IR lists (old order and new order).  Then for each preset, I load in the Helix preset (json format), update the indexes for each IR within the presets appropriately knowing that the presets originally reference the old order and I then map it appropriately to its new slot location based on the new IR order, and save them back out.  Then I re-import the presets.

 

So it's just a few mouse clicks to export.  Run the program to remap the preset file IR indexes.  And load the new IR set.

 

Works like a charm.

 

Things get only slightly more complicated for IRs that controlled through snapshots, but I've got that handled also.

 

No numbering to worry about, etc.  Just need to make sure and save the order of the presets in the Helix before and after adding new ones.  The best way to do that for me is to use a staging directory where I drag them first, and then into the Helix.

 

Of course, it's subject to breaking if L6 changes the preset file format or structure, but it works great otherwise.  And I don't have to worry about renaming IRs with prefixes.

 

Sounds complicated to describe, but it's simple and easy in practice.

[johnonguitar]

Thanks to Hefonthefjords (this person is a genius) I was able to regain my presets sounds and functionality as well as my sanity after resetting every preset and snapshot.

My original post was made because Line 6 have made this same mistake of "bugs" in the system on every update they have released and was aimed at no-one in particular and if you took offence then the "cap must have fitted". A sincere thanks also goes out to all of you who offered serious help. Now I'm off to earn my living.

Seriously though is this guy trolling?

[hideout]

First thought in my mind as well - if the OP is as "pro" as he implies (a vague question-begging term at best), with dozens of imminent gigs, why wouldn't he have a second unit? I'm semi-pro these days (admittedly my band doesn't go out the door for less than $2500+, I'm a well paid part timer) and when I decided the Helix was my baby I found a good deal on a return - I leapfrog them as regards updates, never doing B until I've verified A.

 

I dunno - different strokes.....

When financially feasible, this is a good way to go.

[trolley]

I must admit - when I updated & reloaded my user presets in, I thought they sounded different.

Specifically the modded 2204 based ones sounded more fizzy & had more gain than before. Most of the others seem fine.

And I don't have any IRs loaded in - everything is based on Line 6's presets.

Fortunately since I'm not gigging at the moment it's not a big deal. I've started by dialling down the gain on the amp & the 808 - but I think a bit of re-eq-ing will be needed

[klangmaler]

[...] If you don't do the reset, Helix could potentially unleash demons from Wal•Mart and eat your loved ones. [...]

 

...and some like polka death metal in their cars...

[willjrock]

So, back to the original post/poster........

 

After rectifying any issues with IRs and global settings, are you still experiencing problems with the update? If so, please give details and perhaps we can help.

A lot has been made of Helix sounding differently after an update. I personally dont buy it in most cases(at least not audibly) because A - i happen to have ears too and B - the majority of attention given in my studio IS to the monitoring, room, and treatment. Both financially and in configuration.

 

That being said - do you think the following might serve as a reliable assessment for those that just want the piece of mind in knowing if they are hearing something slightly different or not from update to update?

 

1) Save a DI'd guitar track to your desktop

2) reamp DI'd guitar track thru helix using amp of choice and current software...lets say 2.01 for smplcty sake...save recorded track

3) update helix software to 2.10

4) reamp ORIGINAL DI'd guitar track thru helix using same amps, same settings but this time in 2.10 software...save recording

5) null both reamped files against each other.

 

If nothing else at all, user could have affirmation, as to if any amp or cab sounds different.  No? .......or that there is a provable method to rebut those making broad generalizations similar to  "such and such amp sounds way better or worse or different now"

[silverhead]

That would be an excellent basis for comparison.

[willjrock]

That would be an excellent basis for comparison.

Appreciate the confirmation.

[bsd512]

That would be an excellent basis for comparison.

 

Totally agree!

[MonkeyXT]

That's good science; experiment plus control.

[silverhead]

To improve the comparison I would suggest using the same preset for re-amping, not just the same settings (see step 4 above). Export the v2.01 preset used for reamping, then update, then import the preset into v2.10, then reamp again. Doing both (manually recreating same settings vs. using same exported/imported preset) would allow you to identify any potential anomalies in the export/import process.

 

Not sure what you mean by 'nulling' the reamped files against each other. Do you mean using some wav file comparison utility, or just using your ears?

[zooey]

Play both with the phase of one inverted. If the results are identical, there should be no output at all.

[silverhead]

Thanks for the explanation. Never heard it called that before.

[Lachdanan0121]

Its basically phase cancellation. If they are the same then there will be no sound. Only works if properly laid in time, not one ms difference.

 

Military, and MIC have experimented with this to try and create silent helicopters. Mics positioned at the rotors to capture the sound and output it through speakers on bottom of craft after phase inversion. It didnt work as desired in that application, however for this test it should... provided the timing isnt off at all.

 

Good idea Willjrock!

[willjrock]

 

 

Not sure what you mean by 'nulling' the reamped files against each other. Do you mean using some wav file comparison utility, or just using your ears?

Yep Zooey is all over it. I often do this to see if i have inadvertently loaded up two of the same IRs. After i have edited the name of one im just testing out or am not overly familiar with, sometimes i'll mistakenly put it in the rotation again. Load them both, flip the phase, no sound AT ALL = oops same IR.

 

 

To improve the comparison I would suggest using the same preset for re-amping

Yes, it would have to be, or the test would be compromised. 

 

 

Military, and MIC have experimented with this to try and create silent helicopters. Mics positioned at the rotors to capture the sound and output it through speakers on bottom of craft after phase inversion.

 

Wow that would be something. A silent helicopter.

[willjrock]

Thanks for the explanation. Never heard it called that before.

 

Id like to motion for a few more up votes to be allowed in a day, please.

[Digital_Igloo]

Remember, FS9/10 resets your Global Settings as well. If they're not set up the same way as before—say, 1/4" outs are now at line level instead of instrument level—of course things will sound different.

[ronnief83]

c'mon guys!

Do you really not hear any difference in your patches after updates???

All my patches sound way better after every firmware update!

 

;)

[malhavok]

The only time I heard a difference was after the update where they fixed the delay level problem.

[klangmaler]

Maybe ears sometimes need a firmware update, too :lol:

[PierM]

The only change I noticed is the Headphone Volume level. Dramatic drop for me; used to play at 3/4 of headphone level, now even at max it's really low.

[spikey]

Maybe ears sometimes need a firmware update, too :lol:

Thats always the case, but it doesn't mean there might also be some tweaks on another patch needed too.  :)