FRFR speaker !!!

[Zohan315]

Hi all, this is my first post. Need some help about my Helix LT. So Last night i had a gig and i used Marshall Tube amp. The sound was nasty, terrible. So i learned from few forums that i need to use FRFR speaker to get a clean authentic Helix sound. So my Question is what is the best FRFR speaker? Does QSC K series consider as an FRFR speaker? I do gigs here and there and i drive coupe. So won't able to carry a big speaker. 

[GeeTah]

I have four different FRFR Solutions and - depending on the venue size - one of these works. BTW, all my patches are stereo which was based on my old 2 amp and pedal board rig. In all case with the Helix, I send the XLR outs to FOH and the quarter inch out to the FRFR

 

Option 1 - Large venues - Mission Gemini 2. Extremely accurate reproduction, works in stereo - large footprint and weighs 75lbs. 

Option 2 - Smaller venues - Pair of QSC K8-2 - DSP Setting of "Studio Monitor" - sounds great - loud as you want (lightweight)

Option 3 - Even smaller venues - Single QSC K8-2 - DSP Setting of "Studio Monitor" - both channels plugged into the one K8-2

Option 4 - Church and zero stage volume rooms, studio session work - no stage monitor at all, IEM's and Helix direct to FOH or recording console. 

 

Hope this helps.

Brad

[rd2rk]

FRFR means Full Range Flat Response. Full Range means 20Hz - 20kHz.

Flat Response means you get out what you put in.

Most powered PA speakers are Full Range.

ALL speakers color the sound one way or another, so there's really no such thing as Flat Response.

BEST is totally subjective.

How much do you want to spend? Lot's of people use QSC, Yamaha and JBL. All pretty pricey.

There are specialty speakers like Atomic and Friedman. Also pricey.

Line6 just released a new series of speakers made specifically for this purpose. Two price points.

Alto makes speakers like the above mentioned QSC, Yamaha and JBL. Very affordable.

Headrush just released a new speaker made for modelers. Similar to Alto in design and price (same mfr) but voiced differently and more powerful.

 

I had been using an Alto TS210, which sounded OK. I just got the Headrush 112, sounds MUCH better. If the money becomes available, I intend to try the new L6 speaker for comparison.

 

Bottom line, there's no definitive answer to your question, just opinions. You'll need to research the options. Lots of opinions here and on Gearpage. 

 

Just saw Geetah's response. Add that to what I've said here. Good luck and have fun!

 

 

[cruisinon2]

The forum is overflowing threads on this topic... just search "FRFR", and you'll be reading for days. A "best" option doesn't exist, however. Any given unit will either suit your needs and preferences, or it won't, and there's only one way to find out. There are numerous options available, as as you can see from the examples above...do a little research, decide on a budget (as the prices on these things vary widely) then try a few out before you buy, if possible. If that's not an option, buy from someplace with a decent return policy in case you don't like it. 

 

Running Helix into a "real" guitar amp is also a perfectly viable option... though it will likely take some time for you to familiarize yourself with how to make it work with your particular amp.  There are no universal settings that can be applied to everybody's rig... and the experimental phase, I'm afraid is unavoidable. Complex modelers such as Helix typically require a bit of experience before one is comfortable using them.... taking it to a gig straight out of the box rarely ends well for anybody, no matter what you're playing through. 

[DirtFarmer]

Used a Marshall tube amp and it sounded nasty?  I think you have some learning to do with what the Helix is meant to do and how to use it.  

 

There is nothing wrong with using a Tube amp as your power. 

[jws1982]

I have a Celestion K12H-200TC “full range” 12 speaker arriving tomorrow, which I’ll first be throwing in a spider valve 112 for fun.  The spider valve’s are great tube combos for a helix.  Perhaps with this speaker, it’ll sound good with my IR’s turned on as well.   I use an additional frfr speaker on stage only when some stage volume is needed (I still send direct to FOH). This could be a good amp-style alternative like the new powercabs. 

[homegrownbuddy]

RD2RK nailed this one. It's just too subjective in it's current state. The question what is the best FRFR speaker is akin to what is the best FRFR speaker your wallet will allow. There are good FRFR's and really good FRFR'S and then like the $18,000 audiophile FRFR deals that they sell over in Japan. The question in itself should be rewritten to what is the best FRFR I can get for X amount of dollars., then we might be able to be helpful. 

[mmmaslowski]

...or, perhaps, Line 6's own & newly announced Powercab (Plus) for both the "amp in the room" feel, as well as the much needed FRFR?

 

Thanks!

[DunedinDragon]

The reason there's no definitive answer is because there's no definitive problem for all users.  Some users want an "amp in the room" sound, some could care less about that and want an accurate reflection of what the audience will be hearing through the FOH.  Size and weight requirements can be different as well as budgetary concerns.  If you can define all of those problems that you're concerned about then you stand a MUCH better chance of getting something that works for you.

[roscoe5]

Back to the Mashall amp nastiness...

 

While I dont use it normally, I have tried Helix with my Mesa Stiletto (Marshall clone) when I was experimenting.  It is certainly harsh with Helix, especially with my Mesa Black Shadow open back 112 cab (Celestion GT-75 modified I think).  Super bright and harsh.

 

Things that made it better...

- Helix preamp only models

- Turn the presence down on the real amp

- Using my Celstion V30 cab (darker speaker)

 

For my tastes, I found Helix more agreeable with my 6L6 based amps and V30 speakers in general.

[Zohan315]

19 hours ago, DirtFarmer said:

Used a Marshall tube amp and it sounded nasty?  I think you have some learning to do with what the Helix is meant to do and how to use it.  

 

There is nothing wrong with using a Tube amp as your power. 

I have been using moduler for a while. Lets say last 10 years. From Boss GT to Line 6 Pod HD and now Helix. I guess i have knowledge about how these Noise boxes work. Thanks though. :)

[DirtFarmer]

1 hour ago, Zohan315 said:

I have been using moduler for a while. Lets say last 10 years. From Boss GT to Line 6 Pod HD and now Helix. I guess i have knowledge about how these Noise boxes work. Thanks though. :)

 

Well when you words like "nasty" I have to either think you're young and inexperienced or you just don't have a clue about how to tweak and adjust sound.  Pretty silly if you have a Marshall tube head and all you get is nasty tones. 

 

 

[brue58ski]

33 minutes ago, DirtFarmer said:

 

Well when you words like "nasty" I have to either think you're young and inexperienced or you just don't have a clue about how to tweak and adjust sound.  Pretty silly if you have a Marshall tube head and all you get is nasty tones. 

 

 

 

Boy, you sure ascertained a lot about this guy from a couple of words. A couple of words in a post no less. Wow. That is AMAZING.

[jbuhajla]

Well, this thread just turned non-informative....

[cruisinon2]

1 hour ago, jbuhajla said:

Well, this thread just turned non-informative....

 

Wouldn't be the first time...;)

 

Honestly though, this is the "nth" FRFR thread. The same things get repeated time and again. There's no new ground to cover...

[bsewart]

You will see the same in any techy forum.

 

Problem is, a lot of people dont understand the relevent posts that are already included in previous forum threads until a certain point. And this is usually after asking the same old questions.

I am very technical in computing having been programming, reverse engineering software sice early 1990's, and IT manager in education setting up and maintaing networks of hundreds of PCs.  been playing guitar in a very hobby based setting, using only a small standard fender amp.  now been trying to get a handle on the audio stuff after buying an Amplifi75 and it is incredibly complex.  most of the advice is experience driven.  

 

I guess it comes down to how helpful an individual chooses to be to posters of all the same old questions. 

[roscoe5]

Well, I'm gonna have to pre-recommend the Line 6 Powercab.  Just pre-ordered one.  I've been fighting going to FRFR for two years now.

 

This is my first FRFR solution outside of studio monitors.  It's the only FRFR cab with a speaker model safety net built in, which might be a good fall back if I don't like FRFR.  I do need full range regardless because of my Variax.

 

I like the fact that the IRs and cab modeling is all in the speaker.  I've been using my power amp in of my Line 6 Spider Valve amps with no cab model blocks.  I shouldn't have to change my presets to go back and forth between rigs.

 

I was already sold on the coaxial speaker Eminence Beta 12 CX concept with Mission Gemini and had decided that would be my solution when I pulled the FRFR trigger.  Glad I waited.  I think Line 6 just 1up'd it.

[mmmaslowski]

2 hours ago, roscoe5 said:

Well, I'm gonna have to pre-recommend the Line 6 Powercab.  Just pre-ordered one.  I've been fighting going to FRFR for two years now.

 

This is my first FRFR solution outside of studio monitors.  It's the only FRFR cab with a speaker model safety net built in, which might be a good fall back if I don't like FRFR.  I do need full range regardless because of my Variax.

 

I like the fact that the IRs and cab modeling is all in the speaker.  I've been using my power amp in of my Line 6 Spider Valve amps with no cab model blocks.  I shouldn't have to change my presets to go back and forth between rigs.

 

I was already sold on the coaxial speaker Eminence Beta 12 CX concept with Mission Gemini and had decided that would be my solution when I pulled the FRFR trigger.  Glad I waited.  I think Line 6 just 1up'd it.

This!

 

I’ve pre-ordered two of Powercab Pluses (for stereo) and it would be my candidate for your consideration. It’s a piece of the Line 6 platform, and it will integrate with the Helix very well, and fully digital if you consider running it through the Line 6 Link interface. It does offer a nice fallback option with IR and speaker modelling if you end up not liking the FRFR experience. 

[mikisb]

 

On 4/27/2018 at 3:50 AM, roscoe5 said:

I was already sold on the coaxial speaker Eminence Beta 12 CX concept with Mission Gemini and had decided that would be my solution when I pulled the FRFR trigger.  Glad I waited.  I think Line 6 just 1up'd it.

 

Could have been a good idea. For my selfmade FRFR monitors, i first tried the Beta12CX. Not bad, especially for the price, but lots of peaks and dips and the active digital crossover is hard to handle cause the woofer beams far below the tweeter can take over. There are some hardware tweaks provided in the net to make the 12CX better (concerning the "horn" of the tweeter with all his steps) but hopefully, Line6 uses a better base in their cab. I ended up using the Faitalpro 12HX230 as coaxial driver and it was still not a cakewalk to get it pretty linear in different listening angles.

What i wanna say: Most so called FRFR monitors are not really FRFR compared to good HiFi speakers or studio monitors. That seems to be the price for more dB/watt and higher SPL max.

[willjrock]

On 4/25/2018 at 12:58 PM, brue58ski said:

 

Boy, you sure ascertained a lot about this guy from a couple of words. A couple of words in a post no less. Wow. That is AMAZING.

Lets address the topic,  rather than what other people say. Jumping in because someone needs "put in their place" usually just makes things worse.

[brue58ski]

4 hours ago, willjrock said:

Lets address the topic,  rather than what other people say. Jumping in because someone needs "put in their place" usually just makes things worse.

 

His statement was very unfair and I will address those if I choose. He essentially didn't address the topic either. He addressed the fact that he thought the OP was " young and inexperienced or you just don't have a clue about how to tweak and adjust sound." and that he was " Pretty silly if you have a Marshall tube head and all you get is nasty tones." So he was doing exactly what you accused me of. "Jumping in because someone needs to be put in their place". Not really addressing the topic either. Just being insulting. I will address that whenever I choose. As you chose to address my comment and not his. Maybe you should have addressed his as well. But you didn't. I did. And will continue to do so if and when I choose. And isn't "Jumping in because someone needs "put in their place"" exactly what you did?

[roscoe5]

6 hours ago, mikisb said:

 

 

Could have been a good idea. For my selfmade FRFR monitors, i first tried the Beta12CX. Not bad, especially for the price, but lots of peaks and dips and the active digital crossover is hard to handle cause the woofer beams far below the tweeter can take over. There are some hardware tweaks provided in the net to make the 12CX better (concerning the "horn" of the tweeter with all his steps) but hopefully, Line6 uses a better base in their cab. I ended up using the Faitalpro 12HX230 as coaxial driver and it was still not a cacewalk to get it pretty linear in different listening angles.

What i wanna say: Most so called FRFR monitors are not really FRFR compared to good HiFi speakers or studio monitors. That seems to be the price for more dB/watt and higher SPL max.

 

Cool to hear you went down the Beta 12CX road and thanks for sharing your learnings.  

 

I looked at the specs/frequency response curves on the Eminence site and thought it wasn't quite flat, but could be a good economical solution.  I thought maybe I could deal with it with and active bi-amp approach using one of those Crown amps with active digital eq and crossover per channel instead of the Eminence passive crossover.

 

I was reading about the Powercab and Line 6 stated the speaker was a modified cone Beta 12CX and custom Celestion horn.  Maybe the stock Beta 12CX frequency response has been addressed and flattened with both the physical speaker mods and DSP.

 

This raises my hopes that the L6 Powercab will be n improved solution over the Mission Gemini.

[willjrock]

3 hours ago, brue58ski said:

 

His statement was very unfair and I will address those if I choose. He essentially didn't address the topic either. He addressed the fact that he thought the OP was " young and inexperienced or you just don't have a clue about how to tweak and adjust sound." and that he was " Pretty silly if you have a Marshall tube head and all you get is nasty tones." So he was doing exactly what you accused me of. "Jumping in because someone needs to be put in their place". Not really addressing the topic either. Just being insulting. I will address that whenever I choose. As you chose to address my comment and not his. Maybe you should have addressed his as well. But you didn't. I did. And will continue to do so if and when I choose. And isn't "Jumping in because someone needs "put in their place"" exactly what you did?

Not a big deal man.  You are usually one of the better ones. I guess I didn’t mean you specifically so much but more in the sense of all of us.  I apologize if you felt singled out, and re-reading my post I could see how it would look like that. 

[mikisb]

2 hours ago, roscoe5 said:

I was reading about the Powercab and Line 6 stated the speaker was a modified cone Beta 12CX and custom Celestion horn.  Maybe the stock Beta 12CX frequency response has been addressed and flattened with both the physical speaker mods and DSP.

 

This raises my hopes that the L6 Powercab will be n improved solution over the Mission Gemini.

I think the Beta12CX could be an interesting base for improvements. The main point seems to be the physical transition from the tweeter to the woofer cone wich includes some steps and barriers. But honestly, it was still much better in construction and in sound than the 12"coaxial speaker i found in my cheap monitor "Thomann The Box ProMon 12".

So with a bit of tweaking from line6, it could get a pretty good construction for the price. We have to keep in mind that some other professional grade coax drivers coast as much as the whole Speaker with baffle and amp. 

The reason for me to build the things myself was that i wanted to get FRFR but in a more traditional guitar amp look and with less weight than usual solutions. Both had nothing to do with the sound as i think, there were some pretty goot FRFR speakers on the market.

[roscoe5]

1 hour ago, mikisb said:

We have to keep in mind that some other professional grade coax drivers coast as much as the whole Speaker with baffle and amp. 

The reason for me to build the things myself was that i wanted to get FRFR but in a more traditional guitar amp look and with less weight than usual solutions.

 

The Faital Pro 12HX230 does look like a much better speaker than the Eminence Beta 12CX according to the specs.  Could be used for bass too I bet.  That's the one wish I had for my FRFR solution that I don't think Powercab can fill.  Accugroove has an FRFR solution that can play double duty, but it's not coaxial.

 

What did you use for eq/crossover DSP and amplification?

[glideman]

FRFR I've owned of note:  original Friedman one (wedge-ish), Atomic CLR, several powered PA monitors, including coaxial ones.

 

FRFR I've kept:  Mission Gemini 2 (#1 - 2x12  LOUD and sweet),  Xitone MBritt convertible open/closed back (1x12, #2/backup, still a great FRFR).

 

FRFR on order:  Line 6 Powercab Plus (1x12).  Love the tilt back legs.  Looking forward to comparing it to the rest.

[spikey]

On April 26, 2018 at 10:09 AM, cruisinon2 said:

 

Wouldn't be the first time...;)

 

Honestly though, this is the "nth" FRFR thread. The same things get repeated time and again. There's no new ground to cover...

Same thing happens every update when there's no tuner added in the editor... ; p 

[mikisb]

19 hours ago, roscoe5 said:

 

The Faital Pro 12HX230 does look like a much better speaker than the Eminence Beta 12CX according to the specs.  Could be used for bass too I bet.  That's the one wish I had for my FRFR solution that I don't think Powercab can fill.  Accugroove has an FRFR solution that can play double duty, but it's not coaxial.

 

What did you use for eq/crossover DSP and amplification?

Yeah, but you have to take care (as always) with the manufacturers curves. Keep in mind that Faital uses a 100 dB scale and i'll bet that there's some smoothing too. Some manufacturers do the same, others use 50 dB scales and perhaps less smoothing. Makes a huge difference on the spec sheets.

So for my taste and my measurements, the Faital is better overall then the Beta12CX but not as good as the curves say.

And yes, my intention was to use a pair of them for guitar, bass and party - so "just"  loud studio monitors ;)

I don't think that the Faital is much better for bass than the Emi, cause the linear displacement of the cone is similar and in the right baffle with the right tuning, the Beta12 woofer should work for bass too. It all depends on the net volume and reflex tuning. If the powercab is mainly designed for guitar, i suppose a smaller net volume, so less bass performance.

 

For me this works just fine. It works great with the Helix as well as reproducing music from FLAC files. Nearfield: No problem due to the coaxial driver. Not high end in HiFi sense, but better than most monitors/PA speakers i've heard. And flexible as hell cause i can program the filters as i want (even with guitar-speaker characteristics as the powercab) and store 4 presets in the amp module. Could'nt really test the abilities for bass as even at some percent of the power, every wall and every everything in my cave starts to rattle :)

 

I've built the 2 cabs with about 50 liters net each, reflex tuning at about 37 Hz (but variable). For amplification, i use for each cab a Hypex PSC 2.400D with 2x 400W/4Ohms and a powerful DSP (15 filters/chanel, programmable by usb/PC). But keep in mind that both together only can provide 500Watt/4 Ohms due to limitations of the power supply. But for the 12HX230 it's just fine. Each active cab has about 11 kg and i wait for Faital to build the same driver but with neodymium motor instead of ferrite, as my goal was sub 10 kg each.

[scallybert]

Well, in 2005 I was using a Mackie SRM450, driven from Bass PodXT.

 

*Very* loud and compact.

[bryaneaves]

Maybe it's just bad timing, but none of these speakers are available all over the SE USA.  I live in Nashville where there is a crazy number of music stores.  I've been reading these forums for 2 weeks and have a list of speaker recommendations and nothing is available to try out.  I travel for a living and expanded my search to states all over the south and there are no Alto's 3 series, no Line 6 L2T's, L3t's, L2M's or L3M's, no Headrush, or any others that are frequently recommended on here.  I'm going to end up going to my local guitar center and buying something I've never heard of just to get a speaker in hand that I can test first.  It's quite frustrating.

[rd2rk]

It's not surprising that there's no L6 speakers at music stores. They're relatively expensive. produced in relatively small quantities and, apparently, not really being pushed by Yamaha. Their new Powercabs haven't even been released yet, and will be a while getting into stores, if ever.

 

That there are no Altos makes less sense, because they're relatively cheap and very popular with DJs. Heck, you can even get them in DENVER at GC!

 

Headrush has just been released, and is pretty specifically meant to be used with modelers, so you may NEVER see them in stores.

 

However, if there's no Yamaha, QSC or JBL, I've gotta wonder - just what the heck DO the music stores in Nashville sell for PA and DJ use - PEAVEY?

 

I'm currently very happy with my Headrush, which replaced an Alto TS210. I bought the Headrush from Sweetwater. If I didn't like it I'd've returned it in a heartbeat.

SW is REALLY GOOD about that.

 

GO FOR IT! Whadaya got to lose?

 

 

 

 

[HonestOpinion]

9 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

It's not surprising that there's no L6 speakers at music stores. They're relatively expensive. produced in relatively small quantities and, apparently, not really being pushed by Yamaha. Their new Powercabs haven't even been released yet, and will be a while getting into stores, if ever.

 

That there are no Altos makes less sense, because they're relatively cheap and very popular with DJs. Heck, you can even get them in DENVER at GC!

 

Headrush has just been released, and is pretty specifically meant to be used with modelers, so you may NEVER see them in stores.

 

However, if there's no Yamaha, QSC or JBL, I've gotta wonder - just what the heck DO the music stores in Nashville sell for PA and DJ use - PEAVEY?

 

I'm currently very happy with my Headrush, which replaced an Alto TS210. I bought the Headrush from Sweetwater. If I didn't like it I'd've returned it in a heartbeat.

SW is REALLY GOOD about that.

 

GO FOR IT! Whadaya got to lose?

 

 

 

 

 

As the first user I have seen on the forum who reports having one of these, what do you prefer about the Headrush over the Alto TS210? Some folks have speculated that the Headrush appeared to be a repackaged Alto so I am genuinely curious as to what you like about the Headrush. I know there are differences in the specs but I am more curious about what you prefer regarding the end result. At a $299 price point they do have some appeal.

[rd2rk]

14 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

As the first user I have seen on the forum who reports having one of these, what do you prefer about the Headrush over the Alto TS210? Some folks have speculated that the Headrush appeared to be a repackaged Alto so I am genuinely curious as to what you like about the Headrush. I know there are differences in the specs but I am more curious about what you prefer regarding the end result. At a $299 price point they do have some appeal.

 

You know all the EQ problems that so many of us have a problem with? The Alto seemed to emphasize them. The Headrush does not. How these things (FRFR) speakers sound is, of course, highly subjective, YMMV. But, in my ongoing love/hate relationship with my Helix, the Headrush has been a major factor in my keeping it.

 

Also... I'm actually a bass player. The Headrush sounds GREAT with both an ME50B plugged straight in, and the Helix bass presets, which didn't impress me thru the TS210, sound really good thru it! I'd been looking for a lightweight Class D amp, and not being impressed by what I was hearing at the ridiculous prices that are being asked. The Headrush and the Helix just might do the trick.

 

Now, when and if the Helix gets back from service and the dropout problems are resolved, I just MIGHT be ready to rock again!

[scallybert]

Given what people have said about price & availability, and what I said about good results many years back with a Mackie SRM450, it may be worth a look at https://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=mackie+powered+speakers .

 

Also bear in mind that various of these products have been around a while (or earlier versions have), so the there may be some available 2nd hand. eg Various SRM450s on UK Ebay.

 

  

[MojoAxe]

I’ve never used an FRFR so maybe there something I’m missing out on that I just don’t know about, but I’m very happy with the live tones I get feeding my Helix or GT-100 into the effects return of a tube guitar amplifier. Basically, I’m bypassing the tube amp’s preamp and using the Helix’s preamp in its place.  I run just one cable out of the Helix into the effects return, so, I don’t have 4 cable level issues to work out.  It’s a really simple setup.

 

Right now my amp of choice is an Eganator Rebel 30 combo, or a Rebel 20 head into an Eganter Tweaker 1-12 box.  These amps both seem to have a well rounded frequency response. In my Helix patches, I use only the preamp (no amps, cabs, or IRs).  Since I only play live through an amp and don’t do any direct recording into a computer, there’s no need for me to try to match a live sound with a direct-out sound. I simply adjust the Helix preamps and effects to the tone I’m after.  I’m trying to duplicate tube amp tone, so I figure what better amplification system than a tube amp?

[DunedinDragon]

1 hour ago, MojoAxe said:

I’ve never used an FRFR so maybe there something I’m missing out on that I just don’t know about, but I’m very happy with the live tones I get feeding my Helix or GT-100 into the effects return of a tube guitar amplifier. Basically, I’m bypassing the tube amp’s preamp and using the Helix’s preamp in its place.  I run just one cable out of the Helix into the effects return, so, I don’t have 4 cable level issues to work out.  It’s a really simple setup.

 

Right now my amp of choice is an Eganator Rebel 30 combo, or a Rebel 20 head into an Eganter Tweaker 1-12 box.  These amps both seem to have a well rounded frequency response. In my Helix patches, I use only the preamp (no amps, cabs, or IRs).  Since I only play live through an amp and don’t do any direct recording into a computer, there’s no need for me to try to match a live sound with a direct-out sound. I simply adjust the Helix preamps and effects to the tone I’m after.  I’m trying to duplicate tube amp tone, so I figure what better amplification system than a tube amp?

 

But what do you do when you need to send the amp through the PA?

[brue58ski]

On 4/27/2018 at 9:19 AM, willjrock said:

Not a big deal man.  You are usually one of the better ones. I guess I didn’t mean you specifically so much but more in the sense of all of us.  I apologize if you felt singled out, and re-reading my post I could see how it would look like that. 

 

I would say it didn't just appear I was singled out since it was my post that you quoted.  That in itself, did single me out. I don't see how anyone could have come to any other conclusion.

[MojoAxe]

2 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

 

But what do you do when you need to send the amp through the PA?

 

I just plant a mic in front of the amp.  I guess it’s an old school approach, but it works.  A start-up band I’m playing in opened up for a band this weekend.  I took a really simple setup which consisted of my GT-100 board, the Rebel 20 Head, the Tweaker 112 box, and a Les Paul.  My amp was dwarfed by the rig the guitarist for the main act was using, which consisted of a Marshall head, a 4-12 box, a rack full of effects, a Marshall combo, and a pedalboard that was close to 4 feet wide.  I felt like my guitar sounded great during our set, which was confirmed when three different members from the other band approached me to comment about how great my tone was.

[DunedinDragon]

1 hour ago, MojoAxe said:

 

I just plant a mic in front of the amp.  I guess it’s an old school approach, but it works.  A start-up band I’m playing in opened up for a band this weekend.  I took a really simple setup which consisted of my GT-100 board, the Rebel 20 Head, the Tweaker 112 box, and a Les Paul.  My amp was dwarfed by the rig the guitarist for the main act was using, which consisted of a Marshall head, a 4-12 box, a rack full of effects, a Marshall combo, and a pedalboard that was close to 4 feet wide.  I felt like my guitar sounded great during our set, which was confirmed when three different members from the other band approached me to comment about how great my tone was.

 

Yeah...I guess that's the point I was wondering about.  That's the reason so many of us go the FRFR route.  Once you place the mic in front of the amp, that wonderful sound you're hearing on stage gets changed out front.  It doesn't mean it's bad, but definitely different due to the coloration of the mic and it's placement relative to the speaker.  We choose FRFR setups specifically to control that sort of thing.

[scallybert]

In theory, what sounds great in your headphones; sounds just as great going into a desk [PA/studio/IEM/etc]; or coming out of your personal PA or monitoring system.