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I would disagree with statement that "forwarding MIDI sys ex message from MIDI in to MIDI out has never been a feature claimed by Line 6". Go to user manual page 41 (Global settings > MIDI/Tempo) and you find the magic sentence : "MIDI thru : if you activate this parameter, MIDI out is acting as a MIDI thru and forwards ALL MIDI IN messages received on MIDI in" (translation from french version of user manual). It is exactly how the MIDI thru (from MIDI in to MIDI out) should behave: forwarding ALL messages from in to out. Fact is Hx effects filters some MIDI messages. Here it is sysex, but it could also be midi clock or whatever. When supporting this forward feature you have to forward everything, and not filter anything.

 

On other points I mentionned, I already opened a ticket for solving this, but unfortunately after making many tests requested by Line 6 support (firmware update, re-creating the issue on an empty device without reloading any backup...) and making image snapshots, line6 support was not able to help me... and ignored the issue closing the ticket.

 

Meatime I found a way to solve the issue, just in case some other people have the same problem :

1) in Hx editor, export just the preset (.hlx)

2) open it in a text editor, it's a JSON file

3) while all my Instant commands where really appearing in the Hx effects, it was not defined in the JSON file (how it was stored ?!? mystery...). So definitions generated by Hx Effects device were quite empty :

At file header, I had :

  "tone" : {

   "commandInst1" : {

    "@command" : 19

   },

   "commandInst2" : {

    "@command" : 18

   }, 

without any other definition, while there was some additionnal definition for the "working presets".

Then at snapshots definition section, I had (showing just one snapshot example) :

 "snapshot1" : {

    "@ledcolor" : 6,

    "@name" : "Lyrics",

    "@pedalstate" : 0,

    "@tempo" : 120.0,

    "@valid" : true,

    "blocks" : {

     "dsp0" : {

      "block0" : true,

      "block1" : true,

      "block2" : false,

      "block3" : false,

      "block4" : true,

      "block5" : false

     }

    },

    "commands" : {

     "commandInst2" : {

      "@fs_enabled" : false

     },

     "commandInst3" : {

      "@fs_enabled" : false

     }

    }

   },

As you can see, no parameters defined for each snapshot, rather an empty definition (and CommandInst1 was appearing in the Hx effects, while not defined at all in the JSON file).

 

It appears that most of the time preset export does not export the MIDI Instant commands parameters. So let's reconstruct it...

 

4) to update the file, add at the beginning of the file, just after the "tone" :

  "tone" : {
   "commandInst1" : {
    "@bank0" : 0,
    "@bank32" : 0,
    "@channel" : 0,
    "@command" : 4,
    "@current" : 0,
    "@program" : 0
   },  
   "commandInst2" : {
    "@cc" : 00,
    "@channel" : 0,
    "@command" : 1,
    "@value" : 0
   },

One section for each Command Instant you want.  Here you define the type of the command which will be used for each snapshot. Here is one example for a PC and another for a CC. The @command value defines the command type. It is PC=19 and CC=18 in some of my presets, and some other have saved PC=4 and CC=1. Seems that PC=4 and CC=1 works better in my case. Not sure why there is this difference, I suspect that there has been a firmware change and such values change... that would also explain the issue I face. In this section, I guess all values sets the default values for all snapshots if they are not re-defined in each snapshot.  If defined in one snapshot, each value overrides the default value (It's my guess, but I did not test it, so I prefer to make the default and each snapshot definition)

 

5) at the bottom of the file, in each snapshot section, modify the parameters you want to send for each command for this snapshot. eg :

   "snapshot0" : {
    "@ledcolor" : 8,
    "@name" : "Couplet",
    "@pedalstate" : 0,
    "@tempo" : 120.0,
    "@valid" : true,
    "blocks" : {
     "dsp0" : {
      "block0" : true,
      "block1" : true,
      "block2" : false,
      "block3" : false,
      "block4" : false,
      "block5" : false
     }
    },
    "commands" : {
     "commandInst1" : {
      "@bank0" : 0,
      "@bank32" : 0,
      "@channel" : 0,
      "@current" : 0,
      "@fs_enabled" : false,
      "@program" : 0
     },
     "commandInst2" : {
      "@cc" : 101,
      "@channel" : 3,
      "@fs_enabled" : false,
      "@value" : 0
     }
    }
   },

In this example, when selecting snapshot 0, Hx effects will send a fake PC command (not used)(in fact it will not sent the PC command when value is set to 0, see below) and a valid CC number 101 on midi channel  3 (0x02 sent). More generally when you want to disable an Instant command in a particular snapshot, set all values to 0 (or send it to a non-active midi channel...).

Note that while CC will send the right CC number indicated in JSON file (counting from 0 to 127), the PC will send a -1 value (counting from 1 to 128). So for example :

    "commands" : {
     "commandInst1" : {
      "@bank0" : 0,
      "@bank32" : 0,
      "@channel" : 3,
      "@current" : 0,
      "@fs_enabled" : false,
      "@program" : 14
     },

will send a MIDI message : 0xC2 (=PC on channel 2), 0x0D (PC=13).

For the PC, if you set the @program value to 0, the PC will be disabled for this snapshot and not sent to MIDI out.

 

5) save the file and reload it in Hx editor as a single preset, in the desired preset location.

 

Also note that when defining one Instant Command in a preset/snapshot, the IC type (CC=18 or PC=19) is mentionned in file header, but parameters are strangely not defined at all when exporting the JSON file. Anyway, adding it into the JSON file and re-importing it forces the Hx effects to take it into account... and store it correctly if there has been some saving corruption.

 

Again, I would have expected the Line6 support to ask me to send some hlx files to verify such preset saving bugs. They didn't... not very technical answer.

 

Anyway, hope this helps...

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On 7/30/2022 at 8:54 AM, VEVEF32 said:

I would disagree with statement that "forwarding MIDI sys ex message from MIDI in to MIDI out has never been a feature claimed by Line 6". Go to user manual page 41 (Global settings > MIDI/Tempo) and you find the magic sentence : "MIDI thru : if you activate this parameter, MIDI out is acting as a MIDI thru and forwards ALL MIDI IN messages received on MIDI in" (translation from french version of user manual). It is exactly how the MIDI thru (from MIDI in to MIDI out) should behave: forwarding ALL messages from in to out. Fact is Hx effects filters some MIDI messages. Here it is sysex, but it could also be midi clock or whatever. 

 

Most guitarists don't even know what a SYSEX message is. Most MIDI users don't use them. Most who've used them have done so to transfer a configuration file from an editor to their FCB1010 (or the like) without any real idea of what exactly was going on behind the scenes and have learned the hard way that you need a proper dedicated MIDI Interface to do it as many of the cheap cable interfaces most commonly used to connect MIDI instruments don't pass the longer SYSEX messages. My iConnectivity MIO (more expensive) passes SYSEX no problem, I have two of the cheapies which, while appearing to be identical (treble clef branding), one passes SOME sysex and the other passes none. Go figure!

 

IOW - using SYSEX is a special case mostly used by SYNTH people who generally have a much better understanding of MIDI than most, ESPECIALLY guitarists. Helix is a GENERAL PURPOSE device specialized for use by GUITARISTS. Just as it is NOT the best Audio Interface, it is NOT the best MIDI Interface.

 

So, to be clear, Line6 really SHOULD change their manuals and marketing materials to state clearly that SYSEX (and "whatever") is NOT supported and that the Audio Interface has more latency than many dedicated Audio Interfaces would. There are FAR MORE Helix users concerned with the latency thing than will EVER care about SYSEX. But I agree, the documentation SHOULD be accurate.

 

Personally, I'd be interested in seeing you document the last part of the quoted statement:

"Fact is Hx effects filters some MIDI messages. Here it is sysex, but it could also be midi clock or whatever. "

I just tested MIDI Clock, and Helix (don't have HXFX) passes MIDI Clock from Reaper just fine. I don't have a touch sensitive KB to test that stuff with, so you MIGHT be right about that. Maybe you can test that? I've not encountered any filtering of the basic MIDI messages that most of us are concerned with - PC, CC and NOTE.

 

As for the rest of your post, it's great that there's someone out there interested enough in this stuff to take the time and make the effort to do the no doubt significant amount of work it took to come up with this stuff. There's probably someone out there who'll actually use it and be very appreciative. However, it will NOT be used by the average Helix user who bought the device to replace their tube amp and analog pedal board. To most of us that stuff is nerdy g0bb1edyg00k. :-)

 

EDIT: I just re-read your previous post. While I've not had the random value re-assignment issue you mentioned (I save each change) maybe I'm not really understanding how you're configuring things or what the actual problem is. Regarding disabling an IC message just assign the message to an unused MIDI Channel. This will of course reset the message so that it'll be re-sent in the other Snapshots. If that's a problem I don't know the solution. Maybe this is another request for Ideascale? I'll vote for it!

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Yes I agree sys ex messages are probably not the most used messages. But just take one exemple : all expensive strymon pedals, which are references among effects pedals, only use midi in and sys ex messages to configure the pedals (such as the Big Sky). No USB. So if you use a hx effects as a 'command center' to control downstream strymon pedals in midi Daisy chain, then you are not able to update the strymon presets with a pc connected to the hx midi in, unless you use an additional midi merger or play with cables (which is not very nice on a pedalboard).

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On 7/30/2022 at 2:33 PM, VEVEF32 said:

Yes I agree sys ex messages are probably not the most used messages. But just take one exemple : all expensive strymon pedals, which are references among effects pedals, only use midi in and sys ex messages to configure the pedals (such as the Big Sky). No USB. So if you use a hx effects as a 'command center' to control downstream strymon pedals in midi Daisy chain, then you are not able to update the strymon presets with a pc connected to the hx midi in, unless you use an additional midi merger or play with cables (which is not very nice on a pedalboard).

 

I'm not sure what you're saying The HXFX has 5 pin MIDI connectors, USB is not required to CONTROL the Strymon pedals. However, CONFIGURATION and CONTROL are two different things. CONTROL, switching presets and whatnot, making simple parameter changes on-the-fly, the things that most users are concerned with doing using the HXFX does not require SYSEX, just simple MIDI messages. I don't use Strymon pedals, so I'm not sure what "CONFIGURATION" entails. I'm guessing that "CONFIGURATION" means making wholesale and/or permanent changes to the Strymon Presets which are then CONTROLLED using simple MIDI. I had a look at the MIDI Spec for the BIG SKY and it looks like you could do this with simple MIDI, routing something like a korg NanoKontrol to the HXFX and THRU to the Strymon, but I can see where this might be a PITA vs using SYSEX. I THINK that MIDIOX can send simple MIDI using a batch file, but that's not something I ever looked into.

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On 7/30/2022 at 9:33 PM, VEVEF32 said:

Yes I agree sys ex messages are probably not the most used messages. But just take one exemple : all expensive strymon pedals, which are references among effects pedals, only use midi in and sys ex messages to configure the pedals (such as the Big Sky). No USB. So if you use a hx effects as a 'command center' to control downstream strymon pedals in midi Daisy chain, then you are not able to update the strymon presets with a pc connected to the hx midi in, unless you use an additional midi merger or play with cables (which is not very nice on a pedalboard).


You may want to read this - it’s quite old, but useful.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/68uptvxviegpkgo/The Unofficial Helix MIDI Guide.pdf?dl=0

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

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Thanks @datacommando. Inside there is a lot of information I also found in various forums, which is concatenated here and not being in the Hx user manual. Interesting info source :-)

 

@rd2rk, what I meant is that lot of MIDI devices are not connecting to PC with USB to configure device : presets content (audio algos chain), global settings, etc..., but rather use PC > MIDI in link to do this, like strymon pedals. For doing this, they use only MIDI sysex messages because those messages are the only one in MIDI standard which are proprietary and manufacturer dependent. So, if you want to configure a preset on a strymon pedal (not select but really define what is the preset), you can do it 1) directly on the machine or 2) do it on the PC using a dedicated software (like the Hx edit program). But in this case, preset configuration update don't go thru USB link but only thru MIDI link and using sys ex messages. That's why I said that every time you want to define a new preset on a strymon pedal using your PC you have to connect to the strymon pedal using a MIDI cable. And if your strymon pedal is after the HX effects in the MIDI serial daisy chain, then Hx effects filters all sysex messages and you cannot do it. You have to unplug the MIDI in of the first pedal after the Hx and connect your PC directly after the Hx effects. You can also use a midi merge to perform this. But really, sysex messages should not be filtered by the Hx effects because it can be used by many other downstream devices for their configuration.

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I understand. When I want to send sysex to my FCB1010 I use one of the MIDI to USB cables I mentioned.

What I'm saying is that while It's inconvenient to have to mess with cables to send sysex to the device, it's not a regular day-to-day routine procedure (maybe for uber tweakers) and it's not something that L6 is likely going to be able to fix on the current generation of devices even if they wanted to. AFAIK it's a HW thing. It's not a bug though it may appear so due to the misleading documentation, and much as you believe that L6 should have designed it with this use in mind, it is what it is. The best you can do at this point is go to Ideascale and vote for the existing "feature improvement requests" (sysex has already been requested at least once) and maybe post a "future product feature" request.

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On 6/23/2022 at 5:04 PM, natewan said:

HX Stomp on v3.15
Snapshots are changing parameters that I have assigned to Midi CC commands and not as Snapshot parameters.

 

How I found the issue:
It happens with any parameter assigned to a midi CC# but I found it while trying to toggle a note sync on a delay between 1/4 and 1/8 Dotted. When I change to a different snapshot the note sync goes back to what that snapshot was saved as. This parameter was not assigned as a snapshot edit.

This happens with snapshot edit set to discard as well as recall. 

This issue has been declared normal function.

 

It kind of makes sense but also does not make sense. When selecting how a parameter is to be controlled, a snapshot should not effect other types of controlled parameters (ie. a snapshot should not change a parameter set to be controlled by a Midi CC#). Other parameters that are not controlled do not change but then again they are not changed between snapshots. 

 

I added a request for Snapshot bypass for Parameters here:

https://line6.ideascale.com/c/idea/1049072

 

Kind of like Snapshot bypass on blocks but for individual parameters.

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  • 1 month later...

Possible bug in Vibe Rotary.

1. Speaker blend still bleeds the drum in even if horn is panned in 100%.

2. Speed is off. When I set the same parameters on Vibe Rotary, 122 and 145, the Vibe Rotary is significantly faster.

 

Edit: that is in Helix Effects, type chosen was Stereo. I did not tried mono

 

 

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Maybe a bug with the send and return blocks.

Or maybe it's already reported.

While building a preset to work with guitar, mic and IEM, I added send blocks for the gtr and mic outputs to connect to FOH.

And I also build a separate path for IEM using the input return 1/2.

As per viewing an excellent video by Richie Castellano where he goes over a similar preset, I also decided using the sends instead of the 1/4" or the XLR to go to FOH for a few reasons.

 

The bug itself happened when adding a Return 1/2 block after a Send 1 (or 2) block. Doing this I can spare the separate path for the IEM and get the same result.

All was good after adding the blocks. Everything worked and had sound from all inputs. After saving, changing presets and going back to the preset it was empty and sounded like just DI.

Turned off the Helix (Floor by the way, with the lastest firmware and no other bugs) and when I turned it on there it was. The preset was loaded like it was saved.

Changing again presets and going back, empty again.

 

I was able to change the preset and get the same result I wanted by adding the return 1/2 block in path 1 after another send block. All worked and cycling presets did not emptied the preset. More or less the same thing that I did in path 2 but no bug this way.

I wasn't able to reproduce consistently the bug. Happened in two existing presets consistently. Happened often when building a preset from scratch. And I was trying now with my other unit, a LT, and happened again.

 

Is this a known bug? Can any of the experts around take a look?

Should I open a ticket?

I'm attaching a couple of pics of the screen with a simple test I did yesterday on the Floor unit and the preset I was working now on my LT that exibit the same bug when adding the return and send blocks (in this case the mic input was replaced by Variax but the result is the same).

IMG_20220908_225057.jpg

IMG_20220908_225015.jpg

KIM@MIC_bug.hlx

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