Pitch shift for drop tune

[Shrednoise321]

Any and all help would be great. I have been playing with the pitch wham and now the simple shift to drop tune my guitar. No matter how low, I experience this weird noise when I ring out. Like the noise the original whammy makes when you do chords. I see alot of guys doing this with no issues. Am I not setting it up right? Is there something I'm not doing? HELP!!!

[siremoon]

With the Simple Pitch block I've been getting like a yucky pulsing, oscillation kind of noise if I play an arpeggio on the bottom three strings.    I can only get it to happen if I fret the high E and B the same and the G one higher (eg E and B at 3rd fret, G at 4th) then pluck E B G in succession.  After playing the G there is the horrible oscillation.  I can't get it to do it with other string combinations or with other relative combinations of notes. 

[aepoc]

Would definitely like to hear what others say about this, and if there's a fix.  

[Shrednoise321]

I didn't know exactly how to explain it but that's what I'm experiencing. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one but not glad to see it. I hope someone has a solution for this.

[jaeger28]

I have tried all possibilities. Got a Variax. Solved. You won't get great tunings made with a pitch shifter of an audio signal. Variax does it perfectly though.

[Shrednoise321]

Bought a variax as well. Returned it. Doesn't do palm muting very well for my taste.

[duncann]

I doubt there's any sort of fix for this. The pitch blocks in Helix aren't meant to do more than one note. I get good results as long as I don't play a chord and let it sustain. Playing a chord and letting it ring out creates all kinds of warble, poor tracking. It's just not meant to do this.

 

You can get good results, and even with chords, as long as you don't play riffs that require sustaining chords. For example, it would probably work ok for chugga-chugg-a type riffs.

[Shrednoise321]

Looks like running the dt whammy in one of the fx loops or that EH pedal would work.

[Digital_Igloo]

Pitch Wham is a model of DigiTech's Whammy pedal, and Simple Pitch and Dual Pitch are variations of the same algorithm, because using Pitch Wham (or two Pitch Whams) as detuning/pitch blocks was a pain. We'd love to create an ultra-transparent polyphonic pitch algorithm, but have bigger fish to fry right now. IdeaScale, etc.

[Shrednoise321]

It's okay. I'm not mad. Still love my Helix. Just means I gotta lug 1 or 2 more guitars.

[siremoon]

... and it looks like I'll still be lugging my Whammy DT around with me.  Hey ho.

[theKennyG]

It's okay. I'm not mad. Still love my Helix. Just means I gotta lug 1 or 2 more guitars.

 

Variax?

[Shrednoise321]

Like I said above, I had one. Returned it. Doesn't do palm muting very good.

[Shrednoise321]

... and it looks like I'll still be lugging my Whammy DT around with me. Hey ho.

Looks like I'll have to buy another one...

[archisc]

I use a Digitech shift.... works really well.. no wobble... But you can't have 2 instances of the same FX loop... ie path 1 and 2 both have the same FX loop...... that really bothers me...!

 

The digitech shift resale price is quite good, so you can sell it once Helix has a poly shift

[theKennyG]

Like I said above, I had one. Returned it. Doesn't do palm muting very good.

 

Ah, I missed that bit.

[gunpointmetal]

Depending on your tuning, and how low or high you're trying to shift, even most polyphonic pitch shifters will introduce artifacts. The way you can get around it a little bit for "standard" chords is to set a harmonizer up a third in the key your playing in and just do the root of the chord with the mix set where you like it. 

 

I just get a guitar with more strings and play stuff in different positions.

[TLF2007]

I do some really well tracked drop tunings by adding a punch compressor and a pushed mid EQ in front of the pitch shifter, then add the amp model etc. The EQ may or may not have made the difference, I just wanted it regardless. Its the best pitch shifter I've used actually...

[Joepeggio]

I do some really well tracked drop tunings by adding a punch compressor and a pushed mid EQ in front of the pitch shifter, then add the amp model etc. The EQ may or may not have made the difference, I just wanted it regardless. Its the best pitch shifter I've used actually...

Details TLF! I'm still using my Digitech Drop in loop (works great), but if I could shed it......

 

What effects and settings are you using?

[TLF2007]

I have the deluxe compressor 6:1 with a low threshold so its basically on. I give it 2-4 dB gain bump. I have a parametric eq with 2 db bump in the middle. All this is in front  of the pitch change (-4) then a Plexi model after it. Low sag (2) on the amp to tighten it up. Not particularly metal but chunky..Also note that my guitars have Tone Zones (Dimarzios) that have an exaggerated mid range as well. I have no idea if this is whey it sounds OK but its what I did... Its not perfect but I get very little warble and fun to F- around with. I have no gigging use for it.... its just for fun. The thing is packed up for gigs this weekend. I can look at it closer in a few days. The Line 6 guys probably have some good tips.

[Joelinesix]

This is a frustrating problem, mine did drop tuning flawlessly until I upgraded to the new OS!

[Joepeggio]

I have the deluxe compressor 6:1 with a low threshold so its basically on. I give it 2-4 dB gain bump. I have a parametric eq with 2 db bump in the middle. All this is in front of the pitch change (-4) then a Plexi model after it. Low sag (2) on the amp to tighten it up. Not particularly metal but chunky..Also note that my guitars have Tone Zones (Dimarzios) that have an exaggerated mid range as well. I have no idea if this is whey it sounds OK but its what I did... Its not perfect but I get very little warble and fun to F- around with. I have no gigging use for it.... its just for fun. The thing is packed up for gigs this weekend. I can look at it closer in a few days. The Line 6 guys probably have some good tips.

thanks TLF!!

[glideman]

I use the pitch shifter in the Helix for Eb tuning shift and it works pretty spiffy for me. I play around with eq and sag and stuff, too, if I'm in a real picky mood. However, I have some patches where I have them identical to the unshifted patch. Always have a toggle switch for it, too.

[jorisgriffioen]

I wish music companies finally warmed up to the idea of sharing ideas and even the concept of open source software.

 

Consider that Digitech has had the code to do this for a while and every other company has to reinvent the wheel. That has two effects: we get less value from our products and all innovation is held back by how good you are at developing things that have already been created by someone else.

 

In short: copyright and patents blow.

[gunpointmetal]

 

 

In short: copyright and patents blow.

 

Unless, you know, you wanna keep making money off of your ideas...

[jorisgriffioen]

Unless, you know, you wanna keep making money off of your ideas...

 

Nope, you can differentiate on many other things. Look at web development, great swathes of it are not new, but still there are an enormous amount of companies working in it that provide different value because they are good at different things. 

 

For instance: Line 6 is better at building a nice and usable UI than Fractal is, they might use the same DSP code but their actual product will be different. Next version comes out and Fractal uses some of Line 6's UI ideas? You push further on them or other areas that can be improved. The arms race then is not in catching up to the one thing that was blocked off, but to speed up in actual real innovation. I don't really expect the music industry to ever get there, especially guitarists are some of the most technologically conservative people out there.

Either way, this is pretty far off topic so I'll leave it at that.

[kwhinz]

I made a similar inquiry to Line 6 via their support ticket.  Single-notes and some chords sounded fine with no beats/oscillation, but specific intervals would produce the un-wanted noise predictably.

 

Sounds the current algorithm just isn't ready or intended for true polyphonic pitch shifting.  Digitech's "Drop" pedal or the EHX "Pitch Fork" pedal seem to be the cheapest stompbox option.

 

Those 2 products will be my reference when submitting "Idea Scale" request to Line 6.  Helix should definitely have the processing & memory horsepower to git 'er dun.

[johnalves]

I made a similar inquiry to Line 6 via their support ticket.  Single-notes and some chords sounded fine with no beats/oscillation, but specific intervals would produce the un-wanted noise predictably.

 

Sounds the current algorithm just isn't ready or intended for true polyphonic pitch shifting.  Digitech's "Drop" pedal or the EHX "Pitch Fork" pedal seem to be the cheapest stompbox option.

 

Those 2 products will be my reference when submitting "Idea Scale" request to Line 6.  Helix should definitely have the processing & memory horsepower to git 'er dun.

Pitch wham works great for me.  I have a VH and Ozzy preset and have the pitch wham as the first effect, no issues and no having to switch guitars during a show.

[PBGas]

So it's been about a year and a half now and perhaps Line 6 has "fried all of their fish" at this point? I'm running mine with a Digitech Drop in loop 2 and it works great. It would be nice to eliminate that pedal and use what they come up with.

 

perhaps with the next release, it may happen? One can only hope. LoL. Either way, Helix Rack and control are great and I am enjoying them far more than anything I have used previously!

[jennyholts1]

No need to spend money for something like digitech "the drop" or whammy!

 

You can easily drop the tuning to f.ex to Eb with the Helix "simple pitch" (or pitch whamm). Just set it to -1 (for Eb), -2 (for D etc.) and Mix to 100 % and you are done. Works great, also with chords.

 

BUT CONSIDER:

 

you have to use a certain volume level at the amp - no need to go to 11 :-)  - but you have to setup the amp volume high enough that the downtuned amp signal does no more "double" with the natural volume level of the strings. When i set up my - ralative low - practice volume level, it will not work for me.

 

Best way to check whats going on is setting the looper in front of the simple pitch (distorted amp after the pitch) and play a little riff. Then you can even set up diffrent pitches like Eb, D, C# in one Preset using severals pitch shifters asigned to diffrent footswitches, and switch easily through and see/hear what is going on.

 

btwy: you have to use a certain volume level at the amp - also when using digitech the drop or a variax, same thing, the volume level of the amplified signal must be loud enough so that you are no longer "confused?" from the original tune of the strings.

[PBGas]

No need to spend money for something like digitech "the drop" or whammy!

 

You can easily drop the tuning to f.ex to Eb with the Helix "simple pitch" (or pitch whamm). Just set it to -1 (for Eb), -2 (for D etc.) and Mix to 100 % and you are done. Works great, also with chords.

 

BUT CONSIDER:

 

you have to use a certain volume level at the amp - no need to go to 11 :-) - but you have to setup the amp volume high enough that the downtuned amp signal does no more "double" with the natural volume level of the strings. When i set up my - ralative low - practice volume level, it will not work for me.

 

Best way to check whats going on is setting the looper in front of the simple pitch (distorted amp after the pitch) and play a little riff. Then you can even set up diffrent pitches like Eb, D, C# in one Preset using severals pitch shifters asigned to diffrent footswitches, and switch easily through and see/hear what is going on.

 

btwy: you have to use a certain volume level at the amp - also when using digitech the drop or a variax, same thing, the volume level of the amplified signal must be loud enough so that you are no longer "confused?" from the original tune of the strings.

Uhh....No. Seriously....when you compare the two, there is no comparison. With the Digitech pedal in the loop, it sounds like it should through chords...especially when playing live. The Helix could use a nice polyphonic pitch shifting alogarithm like the other units already have (Kemper and Axe). We will just have to wait, I guess.....I bet we will get more Marshalls models though....cripes! Not complaining just venting a bit.

[StruckingFuggle]

I currently use a Digitech Drop. I’ve tried several of the pitch shifters, and the Drop has the lowest latency and least coloration. It’s not even close to perfect, and I usually only if for learning songs that are 1/2 step down and playing the one or two songs in a live gig that have to be in Eb.

 

Any more than one or two and I’m detuning a second guitar. All of the pitch shifter effects introduce artifacts that sound artificial. Period.

They absolutely affect the way the guitar sounds and feels. Sometimes you can live with it, but it crosses the line very early for me.

 

At some point the processing will be fast enough and cheap enough to make it work, but it’s not there yet.

[BigJayBrian]

The kemper detuner is really impressive, which means it could be done with the helix too.

 

Last weekend we actually on purpose tuned my friends guitar higher and used the kemper detuner to bring the sound back to a regular tuning. We almost couldn't tell the difference

 

The helix shifter is hardly usable imo, only works for dual voiced leads. The nanopog is one of the only external pedal i can't sell ;)

[dsputt]

On 1/27/2016 at 12:10 PM, Digital_Igloo said:

Pitch Wham is a model of DigiTech's Whammy pedal, and Simple Pitch and Dual Pitch are variations of the same algorithm, because using Pitch Wham (or two Pitch Whams) as detuning/pitch blocks was a pain. We'd love to create an ultra-transparent polyphonic pitch algorithm, but have bigger fish to fry right now. IdeaScale, etc.

When do we think this can get to the top of the queue? I recently got Helix, and this is a must for me.  I'm not sure what other things at this point (2019) take precedence, but this seems like an ante to me. Thanks.

[cruisinon2]

1 hour ago, dsputt said:

When do we think this can get to the top of the queue? I recently got Helix, and this is a must for me.  I'm not sure what other things at this point (2019) take precedence, but this seems like an ante to me. Thanks.

 

Don't get too excited for imminent polyphonic pitch shifting, or getting a hint about a time frame, for that matter. ..L6 has never divulged much of anything, and they're not starting today. As you can see this thread is about as old as Helix itself, and guys have been clamoring for this since day one. Yet here we are 3+ years hence, "pitch-shiftless" if you will, lol.

 

If it's really a "must" for you, the Digitech Drop is really your only viable option.

[trolley]

I bought a Digitech Drop - it's the solution

[gepeters]

On 1/27/2016 at 10:10 AM, Digital_Igloo said:

Pitch Wham is a model of DigiTech's Whammy pedal, and Simple Pitch and Dual Pitch are variations of the same algorithm, because using Pitch Wham (or two Pitch Whams) as detuning/pitch blocks was a pain. We'd love to create an ultra-transparent polyphonic pitch algorithm, but have bigger fish to fry right now. IdeaScale, etc.

 

Over 5 years later, any news on detune (drop tune, pitch changes, polyphonic tuner)? Perhaps recent updates have brought this closer? Ideas? Recommendations for use?

 

I realize creating a patch to do this directly competes with the sale and use of the Variax. (A) Not everyone has or wants a Variax. (B) Being able to use this (now standard) "Whammy" feature on any guitar is highly useable by all guitarists. (C) Adding another $400 pedal to a $1600 professional guitar rig that is fully capable of handling polyphonic tuning/de-tuning should be (IS) unnecessary and, I might add, a bit tacky.

 

_______

BTW, it is completely ignorant and a waste of everyone's time to post statements like, "just buy the XYZ pedal" in a forum where the original post is asking about how to get the best use of his Line 6 Helix.

[cruisinon2]

4 hours ago, gepeters said:

 

Over 5 years later, any news on detune (drop tune, pitch changes, polyphonic tuner)?

 

We've had it for months now.

 

Quote

 

Perhaps recent updates have brought this closer?

 

See above.

 

Quote

 

Ideas?

 

Check for updates once in a while.  Especially pre-rant. Righteous indignation is a stinky cologne when you're abysmally uniformed and have no idea what's going on.

 

Quote

Adding another $400 pedal to a $1600 professional guitar rig that is fully capable of handling polyphonic tuning/de-tuning should be (IS) unnecessary and, I might add, a bit tacky.

 

Well "tacky"or not, it was the only viable option until recently. Life's rough...

 

 

Quote

 

BTW, it is completely ignorant and a waste of everyone's time to post statements like, "just buy the XYZ pedal" in a forum where the original post is asking about how to get the best use of his Line 6 Helix.
 

 

 

No, it's not ignorant...nor is it a waste of time to suggest viable solutions to a problem. What's ignorant is refusing to acknowledge the limitations of a device simply because you've decided that it should be something other than what it is (or in this case, was), based merely on the price tag. No one box can do everything under the sun equally well... life just isn't that neat and tidy. And like it or not, no matter how emotionally or financially upsetting you find it to be, sometimes the answer is "you have to buy something else". Pretending otherwise accomplishes nothing but forcing you to tread water with the same problem... which by the way, tends to be rather difficult with a giant chip on your shoulder.

 

But it's a moot point now anyway. Update to 3.1 and you can polytune to your heart's content. And if you can manage to allow your 5 year snit to come to an end, perhaps you'll start to feel like you've finally gotten your money's worth.

 

Bon voyáge!

 

 

[PierM]

53 minutes ago, gepeters said:

 

Over 5 years later, any news on detune (drop tune, pitch changes, polyphonic tuner)? Perhaps recent updates have brought this closer? Ideas? Recommendations for use?

 

I realize creating a patch to do this directly competes with the sale and use of the Variax. (A) Not everyone has or wants a Variax. (B) Being able to use this (now standard) "Whammy" feature on any guitar is highly useable by all guitarists. (C) Adding another $400 pedal to a $1600 professional guitar rig that is fully capable of handling polyphonic tuning/de-tuning should be (IS) unnecessary and, I might add, a bit tacky.

 

I'm not gonna reply to this, as you'll probably read it in 2026...

[datacommando]

1 hour ago, gepeters said:

Over 5 years later

 

Rip Van Winkle?

 

Or, complete ignorance?