Hasn't Line 6 learned?

[isdirg1]

So eagerly, I alongside possibly thousands of other faithful Line 6 users downloaded the "latest and greatest" update 2.10 only to be disappointed in the "schemozzle" of the Expression pedal being unusable and the presets sounding completely different!!

As a professional musician I rely on dependabilty and predictability of my equipment to ensure my audience is pleased.

The new update is a disgrace. So much so I am hoping that I can roll back to 2.01 and get my tones back.

This new update has clearly not been tested by working/gigging  musicians and it seems to me  has been released for "Thanksgiving" to "Please" the "I want something now crowd"  !!! It is no wonder Line 6 has a bad reputation with some musicians.

Line 6 If you are  going to update Helix or any Line 6 product  GET IT RIGHT or don't dot it !!!!!

[johnonguitar]

So eagerly, I alongside possibly thousands of other faithful Line 6 users downloaded the "latest and greatest" update 2.10 only to be disappointed in the "schemozzle" of the Expression pedal being unusable and the presets sounding completely different!!

As a professional musician I rely on dependabilty and predictability of my equipment to ensure my audience is pleased.

The new update is a disgrace. So much so I am hoping that I can roll back to 2.01 and get my tones back.

This new update has clearly not been tested by working/gigging musicians and it seems to me has been released for "Thanksgiving" to "Please" the "I want something now crowd" !!! It is no wonder Line 6 has a bad reputation with some musicians.

Line 6 If you are going to update Helix or any Line 6 product GET IT RIGHT or don't dot it !!!!!

A "pro" upset that the factory presets have changed?

 

Lol

 

Seems legit

[markman87]

A "pro" upset that the factory presets have changed?

 

Lol

 

Seems legit

Priceless. Really. I wouldn't want to be in Line 6's shoes. They sure do handle all the whining with class.

[captainnemo70]

Priceless. Really. I wouldn't want to be in Line 6's shoes. They sure do handle all the whining with class.

 

 

Hey come on guys, he didnt say factory presets, he said presets, maybe he means his own creations.

 

ive not checked with mine, but i sure hope that the basic sounds of te helix havent changed since the update as i spent a LOT of time getting my presets right to sit with the band

[isdirg1]

Because I'm a "pro", not like some trolls on this forum who's IQ is lower than a slug! I made sure I backed up all my presets and was able to roll back my Helix to 2.01 for my upcoming 37 gigs before Christmas. Whilst a lot of "wannabes are still playing with themselves in their bedrooms. Captain Nemo you "nailed it" in understanding mine and am sure others, concerns.

[DunedinDragon]

So eagerly, I alongside possibly thousands of other faithful Line 6 users downloaded the "latest and greatest" update 2.10 only to be disappointed in the "schemozzle" of the Expression pedal being unusable and the presets sounding completely different!!

As a professional musician I rely on dependabilty and predictability of my equipment to ensure my audience is pleased.

The new update is a disgrace. So much so I am hoping that I can roll back to 2.01 and get my tones back.

This new update has clearly not been tested by working/gigging  musicians and it seems to me  has been released for "Thanksgiving" to "Please" the "I want something now crowd"  !!! It is no wonder Line 6 has a bad reputation with some musicians.

Line 6 If you are  going to update Helix or any Line 6 product  GET IT RIGHT or don't dot it !!!!!

 

Interesting that MOST of the "thousands" of others that upgraded had no problems...hmmmmm...makes one wonder doesn't it??

 

Actually, if you're a "pro" I can't help but wonder why you jumped right in to upgrade as soon as it was released.  Seems a bit foolhardy to me.  As a "pro" one tends to be pretty careful about such things because you're so dependent on it.  As for myself, I sat and waited on 2.0 to see how it worked out.  It never did so I waited for 2.01 to shake out.  Made sure I understood what the issues were (the vast majority of which were user errors in following directions).  And only then did I upgrade to 2.01.  Which went flawlessly...

 

And now I sit here patiently watching the responses.  Some of which are like yours, which I suspect will eventually lead back to things like not loading their IR's correctly or in the right places, or forgetting that part of the process resets Globals, but never setting them back to what they had been.  But the circumstantial evidence (given that most people are not having any problems) is that it's more likely about what you might have done than the upgrade itself.

 

The sad thing about this is, the people that encounter problems NEVER follow up to discuss what caused it or how it got fixed.  Maybe because it tends to be too embarrassing to admit once you've thrown a fit and blamed everyone but yourself.

[willjrock]

So eagerly, I alongside possibly thousands of other faithful Line 6 users downloaded the "latest and greatest" update 2.10 only to be disappointed in the "schemozzle" of the Expression pedal being unusable and the presets sounding completely different!!

As a professional musician I rely on dependabilty and predictability of my equipment to ensure my audience is pleased.

The new update is a disgrace. So much so I am hoping that I can roll back to 2.01 and get my tones back.

This new update has clearly not been tested by working/gigging  musicians and it seems to me  has been released for "Thanksgiving" to "Please" the "I want something now crowd"  !!! It is no wonder Line 6 has a bad reputation with some musicians.

Line 6 If you are  going to update Helix or any Line 6 product  GET IT RIGHT or don't dot it !!!!!

Dont worry about the other two guys, as luck would have it, the two biggest trolls this forum has to offer replied to your post.

 

A "pro" upset that the factory presets have changed?

 

Lol

 

Seems legit

You might want to have your delusions looked at. Again, i see you are having a hard time comprehending what you are reading. I guess in your mind, it must say something entirely different lol.

[ronnief83]

Simple rule:

Never ever do firmware update before upcoming gigs.

Easy!

[isdirg1]

In that case I'd never get the chance to update!!! I gig 5-7 days a week. It's my living.

[pb-272]

Because I'm a "pro", not like some trolls on this forum who's IQ is lower than a slug! I made sure I backed up all my presets and was able to roll back my Helix to 2.01 for my upcoming 37 gigs before Christmas. Whilst a lot of "wannabes are still playing with themselves in their bedrooms. Captain Nemo you "nailed it" in understanding mine and am sure others, concerns.

I have a dog.

 

I leave dog food out at night for my dog. Problem is these really smart slugs come from really clever hiding places and eat the dog food. They disguise their trails and evade my traps. You could learn a lot by paying more attention to slugs. Slugs are clever.

[shanecgriffo]

check any ir's you might be using.. they won't be there unless you have reloaded them

[pb-272]

In all seriousness I learnt this the hard way too, I hadn't worked out how to order my IRs properly by numbering them before the global reset. Had to try and remember which one went where. Anyway I won't make that mistake again...

[gbakerjr]

I keep a fairly regular and busy gig schedule as well, and have for decades.  Particularly where computers are concerned, and let's face it, the Helix and other modelers are basically computers, I learned two things:

 

1.  Back up, back up, back up.  If it's digital and doesn't exist in at least three separate places, it doesn't exist. 

2.  Never do major software or firmware updates unless you have time to spot-check them for troubles before you need to go live with the gear.  As mentioned earlier, I typically wait to do updates like this until I see some forum activity regarding the update.

 

That being said, if the update isn't working for you, it takes all of 5 minutes to roll back to the firmware/software/presets combination that you just had, that was working for you.  Getting into a flame war on the forum isn't helping anyone.  I'd rather see specific descriptions of what is not working in the new update, so it can be addressed and fixed.

[silverhead]

So eagerly, I alongside possibly thousands of other faithful Line 6 users downloaded the "latest and greatest" update 2.10 only to be disappointed in the "schemozzle" of the Expression pedal being unusable and the presets sounding completely different!!

....

There are a few things you can do to try and correct the tonal differences. A couple of these have been mentioned above but I'll repeat them:

- make sure you perform the global reset after updating as described in the instructions

- if you use IRs make sure you load them back into the same slots as before. The global reset removes all IRs.

- make sure you manually restore all your global settings to their previous state. This can include on/off states of things like Global EQ. It also affects the global/preset application of Variax parameters.

[zooey]

If you have specific problems, they're much more likely to get fixed if you say what they are (beyond the clearly broken EXP pedal issue).

 

If it's that "things sound different", that's clearly a concern for most of us if true, since we've worked hard to get our patches how we like them, but it's hard to focus on without more specific info. Several others have said they think everything sounds better, which makes me suspicious absent some statement from L6 that they did something that could cause it.

 

But similarly, it's odd that everything is worse for you, especially given those comments from others. If your IRs and global settings have been restored, and things are still bad, please say in what way.

 

I had planned to install this upgrade this morning, and I probably will since I'm not gigging, and can roll back if I need to, but I really do care about the sounds I've built, and will be watching this space to see what develops.

[PeterHamm]

Everybody settle down.

OP, your gripe is not out of line.

Insulting everybody else on the forum, however... is not great form.

for the record, I don't use that many patches and have had no problems with them, but as a regular gigging pro, you of COURSE will be updating shortly before a gig, or you'll never be updating at all.

 

I didn't find the problems you are having during my beta test.

[willsmythe37]

Original poster:

 

It might just be one of those things buddy.

I wonder if we can assist.

 

Can you elaborate as to your live set up, I.e

Do you use IRs in your presets?

 

Sounds like a daft response, but go back to your "saved IR" list and sort them by date before re-importing then to the helix.

They could've been re-loaded in "name order" but because of 50 IRs coming from the same amp, you might not have noticed it.

 

I updated and haven't actually had a chance to try my patches out yet.

After completion I started going back through my global settings (to re-setup everything as it was)

I noticed that I couldn't find the "input impedance" section. Previously I had this set up to "one notch back from Auto". That way I new things were consistent... but I couldn't find it anywhere?

 

If you're like me, perhaps this is something that has changed?

 

Another thing (relating to IRs) might be that the sample rate has changed from 48khz to something different?

[RRMark]

As far as the overall sound changing/improving after a firmware update that's not a just a Line6 thing, but maybe as with Fractal they could add a comment to the instructions

From the Fractal page:

Installing new firmware to your Fractal Audio Systems products adds features and improvements. Your presets are never overwritten, but things may sound different after a major update.

[stephane_dupont]

As far as the overall sound changing/improving after a firmware update that's not a just a Line6 thing, but maybe as with Fractal they could add a comment to the instructions

From the Fractal page:

Installing new firmware to your Fractal Audio Systems products adds features and improvements. Your presets are never overwritten, but things may sound different after a major update.

 

 

If it's the case with Helix (not saying it is, but if), the HUGE difference is Fractal warns about it and Fractal users know about that. That would indeed be inacceptable if upgrading Helix results in a change of tone without any warning from Line 6.

[silverhead]

....

I noticed that I couldn't find the "input impedance" section. Previously I had this set up to "one notch back from Auto". That way I new things were consistent... but I couldn't find it anywhere?

 

...

 The Guitar-In-Z parameter can be found on the Input block of each preset - it's not a global setting. This setting should be retained during the preset export/import process. You shouldn't need to consider it after a firmware update.

 

The Guitar In Pad (which can also greatly affect overall tone) is a global setting.

[phil_m]

I can't say I've noticed the sound of any of my presets changing, and I actually installed earlier builds of the firmware a while ago, and have been using Helix at rehearsal with those installed. Certainly if there were changes, it was nothing drastic enough for me to notice. I'd echo the other comments here. You need to make sure all the global settings are where they should be and that all your IR files, if you're using any, are in the right place.

[Joepeggio]

I had an issue too. When i reloaded the IRs they for some reason loaded in a scrabbled order. It seams you need to select all the ones you use then select and hold the first on on the selected list and drag them to the first slot you need. I had a list selected then grabbed the list from somewhere in the middle, made a mess of things. Worth a look.

 

Edit: i refer to list as they sit in the folder on my desktop. I renamed my irs starting with 01 02.... like previous posts make sure irs are where they should be. If only there was an IR backup "setlist" style.

[zooey]

Agree that better IR management would be a big plus, lots discussion of that in various threads.

 

Suggest a 3-digit prefix, 2 isn't enough for all the IR slots.

[spikey]

Because I'm a "pro", not like some trolls on this forum who's IQ is lower than a slug!

 

 

If I dood it, I get a whippin... Ahhh hell, Happy ThanksGiving to ya bud.

[MonkeyXT]

IRs - yes, prefix with;

001

002

003

...

 

... since it's a 3 digit maximum result, this pads the prefixes correctly for that numbering range.

 

(So sayeth I, another bedroom wannabe =])

[johnonguitar]

Because I'm a "pro", not like some trolls on this forum who's IQ is lower than a slug! I made sure I backed up all my presets and was able to roll back my Helix to 2.01 for my upcoming 37 gigs before Christmas. Whilst a lot of "wannabes are still playing with themselves in their bedrooms. Captain Nemo you "nailed it" in understanding mine and am sure others, concerns.

A slug that's made a living from music for over a decade including touring internationally

 

You sound rather inexperienced if you are updating anything during a run of gigs

 

Ps. 37 church services don't count. That makes you a professional fraudster, not a musician ;)

[PeterHamm]

Ps. 37 church services don't count. That makes you a professional fraudster, not a musician ;)

 

Do they count if that's your full-time job? I don't think I'm a fraudster...

[silverhead]

...

 

Ps. 37 church services don't count. That makes you a professional fraudster, not a musician ;)

 

Wow. Sometimes you can sound so reasonable. And then you repeatedly say things like this. A little winky face doesn't excuse a very personal insult disguised as a joke. Even if you yourself are not religious you should respect the fact that others are.

[johnonguitar]

Do they count if that's your full-time job? I don't think I'm a fraudster...

Ok, well completely serious for a moment and totally off topic and no doubt a whole can of worms but I'm from the UK and the whole P&W thing is getting a bit bigger here now. I recently seen a church advertising auditions for a paid guitarist post. However, you had to be a practising Christian and part of the audition was to speak about your faith.

 

Just in my opinion, I don't think any music "job" that requires you to be religious or have faith or anything else of that ilk can strictly speaking be called a music job. It's something else.

 

So, just to clarify I'm not religious and I was poking a little fun at someone who called me a slug but if you are asking me what I actually think about the whole church thing then I would say you are a professional religious guy rather than musician. Although I'm sure you are more than capable of playing other types of gigs

[johnonguitar]

Wow. Sometimes you can sound so reasonable. And then you repeatedly say things like this. A little winky face doesn't excuse a very personal insult disguised as a joke. Even if you yourself are not religious you should respect the fact that others are.

Why?

[silverhead]

Ok, well completely serious for a moment and totally off topic and no doubt a whole can of worms but I'm from the UK and the whole P&W metal thing is getting a bit bigger here now. I recently seen a church paper advertising auditions for a paid guitarist post. However, you had to be a practising Christian  heavy metal player and part of the audition was to speak about your faith. your favourite metal band.

 

Just in my opinion, I don't think any music "job" that requires you to be religious or have faith a certain type of player or anything else of that ilk can strictly speaking be called a music job. It's something else.

 

So, just to clarify I'm not religious  a metal player and I was poking a little fun at someone who called me a slug but if you are asking me what I actually think about the whole church metal thing then I would say you are a professional religious  metal guy rather than musician. Although I'm sure you are more than capable of playing other types of gigs

 

I've edited your post from a different perspective to answer your 'Why' question.

[PeterHamm]

...So, just to clarify I'm not religious and I was poking a little fun at someone who called me a slug but if you are asking me what I actually think about the whole church thing then I would say you are a professional religious guy rather than musician. Although I'm sure you are more than capable of playing other types of gigs

 

I am a full time Director of Contemporary Worship at a church. Music isn't my whole job, but is a huge part of it. and yes, I'd like to think I'm very capable of playing other gigs. Although I don't have/make time for it.

[PeterHamm]

And folks... let's just leave faith/religion/church out of it.

[soundog]

I wish I hadn't read this thread on Thanksgiving morning. Or ever.

[AlexKenivel]

Ooooh slapfight!

[Digital_Igloo]

If one's presets sound notably different after updating, it's because they didn't redo their global settings the same way or didn't load their IRs into the right locations.

 

Yes, we realize the update process is a pain and we're working on fundamental file system changes that'll make it seamless. There are very good reasons why we can't do it right now, but it'll all make sense in 2017. In the meantime, if you're scared of the update process, don't update.

[datacommando]

 In the meantime, if you're scared of the update process, don't update.

 

 

It don't frighten me! I'm well pleased with my new toys - Thanks D_I and the Line 6 Team

[TheDaveDaveDave]

Another life "pro" tip: keep a backup rig of some kind.

[johnonguitar]

Hush little baby don't say a word, never mind that noise you heard...

 

It's just the Line 6 Helix Update procedure under your bed, in your closet, in your head...

[ricstudioc]

Another life "pro" tip: keep a backup rig of some kind.

First thought in my mind as well - if the OP is as "pro" as he implies (a vague question-begging term at best), with dozens of imminent gigs, why wouldn't he have a second unit?  I'm semi-pro these days (admittedly my band doesn't go out the door for less than $2500+, I'm a well paid part timer) and when I decided the Helix was my baby I found a good deal on a return - I leapfrog them as regards updates, never doing B until I've verified A.

 

I dunno - different strokes.....