HonestOpinion Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I have been thinking about how I use my Helix and just wanted to put this out there and see how other people feel about it. Rather than Line6 adding a "Legacy" category I would much rather they maintain the current effect categories, e.g. "Modulation", Distortion, Delay, etc. and just append the legacy effect's name with an asterisk, a different color or font, or some other way of indicating that they are legacy. This makes much more sense to me than for example adding a "Legacy" list. I am just considering how I use my Helix and when I, for example, go looking for a distortion effect, I would prefer to see all of them in one place, HX and legacy, and be able to select the one that best fits my needs. Having to go into a separate master list - "Legacy", just seems like a poor way to navigate for effects spread out across many categories and will probably make them less likely to be used. Ultimately as long as a legacy effect is differentiated visually from an HX effect, I don't mind it being in the current set of block lists it pertains to(Distortion, Mod, etc.) along with all of my other HX effects. Don't want to come off as sounding critical here about this fantastic update, I am very grateful for the addition of the legacy effects. I am just wondering if the method for navigating to the new "Legacy" effects could be improved upon. I think they will get more usage if they appear, clearly marked, in the same lists as the HX effects, and be much simpler to navigate to. It will also be much simpler to compare similar effects if they are all in one list, e.g. distortions, rather than to have to jump to a completely separate category to listen to the legacy distortions. I guess I am proposing that the Legacy category be eliminated and that Legacy effects just be clearly indicated in some other manner but included in the existing categories of HX effects. How are other folks feeling about this? Update: Added this to IdeaScale. https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Move-Legacy-Effects-in-with-the-rest-and-make-em-look-different/921132-23508#idea-tab-comments 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 +1 Maybe this should go on Ideascale? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 +1 Maybe this should go on Ideascale? I will do that! Thanks for the feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
requietus666 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I'd vote, absolutely ! creating a category Legacy is like dooming the effects to oblivion, or saying in some subtle manner that this or that thing won't cut it I really don't care where did the fx come from, I mean, from where was it im-ported etc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 +1 Maybe this should go on Ideascale? Added this to IdeaScale. https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Include-Legacy-effects-with-HX-effects-with-a-special-indicator/921132-23508#idea-tab-comments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 ... creating a category Legacy is like dooming the effects to oblivion ... Couldn't agree more! This may indeed doom legacy effects to oblivion or at least to being less used if people are forced to compare the specific effect they want to use for a preset by for example rolling though all the HX distortion effects and then having to jump out of that list to go listen to some legacy distortions located in a completely separate area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 Btw, I would not be surprised at all if Line6 already thought of including the legacy effects in the existing HX categories and the new "Legacy" list is their workaround. This might have been due to some technical reason such as embedded names in the legacy effects' code that were the same as the ones in the newer HX effects "confusing" the existing code base as to which effect, legacy or HX was being invoked. Or perhaps designating a legacy effect differently in an existing list is going to take some time to code. Whatever the reason, getting over those hurdles could potentially have delayed this update. If any of these or something similar are the reasons they decided to go with a "Legacy" category I hope at some point they can recode and get around this limitation to make for a more elegant and logical way of including legacy effects alongside HX effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Simple... If the "Legacy" fx added in the Helix update can carry its own worth sound-wise, then more people will use them and they won't wind up on "oblivion's" shelf. If they don't, well.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hefonthefjords Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Wait, aren't they just putting a "Legacy" folder within each category of effect? It would be totally dumb as hell to do anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 Simple... If the "Legacy" fx added in the Helix update can carry its own worth sound-wise, then more people will use them and they won't wind up on "oblivion's" shelf. If they don't, well.... I grant you that requietus666 might have employed a bit of hyperbole there but his point is well taken. I have no doubt that the legacy effects will be employed, but to a much lesser extent than they might have been otherwise. The new effects are a fantastic addition, especially as they not only include always welcome variations on existing HX effects but also totally different effects that may never have made their way into the Helix otherwise. Delighted to see this update. Just think it would be ideal to see the legacy effects as easy as possible to navigate to and use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arislaf Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 As far as i understood, they put the legacy category after the mono/stereo choice. Which is awesome for me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 As far as i understood, they put the legacy category after the mono/stereo choice. Which is awesome for me Thanks for that clarification. If that is the case that is probably an excellent implementation given other restrictions that may prevented them from the IMHO preferable method of just being indicated differently but still in the list with the HX effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_m Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 As far as i understood, they put the legacy category after the mono/stereo choice. Which is awesome for me Yes, this is how it is. Legacy is another sub-category under each effects type heading. So your choices are Mono, Stereo or Legacy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
requietus666 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 and this one just screams to ask if Legacy is another obscure to most of us channel configuration :-Dwell, I sincerely believe we are just in some speculation phase here, because most of the times it has turned out to be a very smart decision from L6 and then we go "aaahhhhww, right, this is cool and well thought out" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 Yes, this is how it is. Legacy is another sub-category under each effects type heading. So your choices are Mono, Stereo or Legacy. No denying that if the legacy effects could not be designated differently from the HX effects and instead had to be separated into a separate list this is by a country mile the best way they could have done it. Or perhaps slightly better would have been to put separate "Legacy" categories under the Mono/Stereo categories instead of next to them. They probably had a good reason for not doing that as well. As I stated above I would not be surprised if this was a well considered decision given whatever technical restrictions and the fastest way to get the legacy effects included now. Just hoping they can do it differently in the future, if they can't, oh well, no tragedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicLaw Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 It has always struck me oddly that the Mono vs. Stereo Block Types appear in separate sub-categories necessitating selecting one or the other prior to selecting the actual FX Block itself, as opposed to simply a Mono or Stereo designation parameter of a common Block Type. The current method also requires a bit of backtracking should your needs or choice change. I have no doubt that Line 6 clearly considered the current implementation, and that what we see it not an oversight. Line 6 has their reasons even if they have not been disclosed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhead Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I suggest we all wait until v2.50 is released, see how the implementation serves our needs/desires, and then continue this discussion. Seems to me that voting in Ideascale to change an implementation that does not yet exist is jumping the gun a bit? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody_smith Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 It has always struck me oddly that the Mono vs. Stereo Block Types appear in separate sub-categories necessitating selecting one or the other prior to selecting the actual FX Block itself, as opposed to simply a Mono or Stereo designation parameter of a common Block Type. The current method also requires a bit of backtracking should your needs or choice change. There probably needs to be a separation between mono and stereo because the stereo versions use more DSP. If it was the same block it would reserve the DSP of the stereo version even if we are using it mono. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datacommando Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I suggest we all wait until v2.50 is released, see how the implementation serves our needs/desires, and then continue this discussion. Seems to me that voting in Ideascale to change an implementation that does not yet exist is jumping the gun a bit?Hell yes! This, ^^^, this ^^^, this ^^^. Why are you guys seeming to find issues with this update when you haven’t even tried it yet. It’s all a bit presumptuous! The Line 6 developers will have their reasons. It’s a little pointless to invent problems that haven’t got yet. Children - please be happy and grateful for your new toys! Nuff said! Jeeziz. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdanan0121 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I suggest we all wait until v2.50 is released, see how the implementation serves our needs/desires, and then continue this discussion. Seems to me that voting in Ideascale to change an implementation that does not yet exist is jumping the gun a bit? This is the position I have. I want to wait, see how its implemented, and see how it affects my workflow. I don't really think it will affect things negatively much at all, but will give me a lot more options with my unit/software. I think some of us are jumping the gun, and firing a bit blind until we have it in our hands. (so to speak) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 I suggest we all wait until v2.50 is released, see how the implementation serves our needs/desires, and then continue this discussion. Seems to me that voting in Ideascale to change an implementation that does not yet exist is jumping the gun a bit? Hell yes! This, ^^^, this ^^^, this ^^^. Why are you guys seeming to find issues with this update when you haven’t even tried it yet. It’s all a bit presumptuous! The Line 6 developers will have their reasons. It’s a little pointless to invent problems that haven’t got yet. Children - please be happy and grateful for your new toys! Nuff said! Jeeziz. I totally respect your position. I do think that thanks to Line6's announcements as well as comments here and elsewhere that we have a pretty good grasp on how the workflow will be affected without actually having it in our hands but you are correct that we don't yet know the extent or even perhaps lack of significant impact. I guess one of the reasons posts like this come out ahead of announced(rare) firmware releases is that somewhere lingers the vain hope that it might influence the implementation before delivery knowing quite well that is beyond highly unlikely. Very happy to see this update especially if they were forced to jump through some hoops to deliver it and did it anyway. Good choice Line6 and thank you! As I said in my initial post, not trying to come off ungrateful here or second guess Line6. Just trying to lay out what seems like an ideal future implementation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhead Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 .... I guess one of the reasons posts like this come out ahead of announced(rare) firmware releases is that somewhere lingers the vain hope that it might influence the implementation before delivery knowing quite well that is beyond highly unlikely. .... Not only beyond highly unlikely. But even if successful, it would delay the any-day-now release to a several-months-from-now release. Yikes - I wouldn't want to be the one known to be responsible for that! Edit: To put it another way.... you're not really hoping that this release be postponed so that your suggestion be implemented, are you? If so - I strongly suggest you don't admit to it here! :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Edit: To put it another way.... you're not really hoping that this release be postponed so that your suggestion be implemented, are you? If so - I strongly suggest you don't admit to it here! :P As the sayin go's down here... Get a rope.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 Not only beyond highly unlikely. But even if successful, it would delay the any-day-now release to a several-months-from-now release. Yikes - I wouldn't want to be the one known to be responsible for that! Edit: To put it another way.... you're not really hoping that this release be postponed so that your suggestion be implemented, are you? If so - I strongly suggest you don't admit to it here! :P As the sayin go's down here... Get a rope.... Calm down, before you organize the lynch mob, no one is trying to delay the release for more than the "two hours" it would take to change it. What orifice are we pulling "several months" from anyway (probably the same one as "two hours")? Mostly just hoping they can pull off this change in a future upgrade and trying to get the process started. There was a little cherry-picking on that quote from me silverhead responded to. I also mentioned "future implementation" in that post. And didn't I see a Spikey request not too long ago for a tuner in the Editor in this release? Man, people get feisty when new releases are pending. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDan Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 It's so that you can reach the effect you want with as few rotations of the scroll wheel as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datacommando Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 ...I guess one of the reasons posts like this come out ahead of announced(rare) firmware releases is that somewhere lingers the vain hope that it might influence the implementation before delivery knowing quite well that is beyond highly unlikely... ...Just trying to lay out what seems like an ideal future implementation. HO,I would think that the people most likely to influence any implementation would be the Line 6 Beta Testers. I haven’t seen any negative comments from them about how this Legacy thing will or will not impede workflow. Let’s not theorise, can we just see how everyone gets along with it when we all, finally, have the Firmware installed. Oh, yeah - don’t forget that this stuff is coming to us FREE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Calm down, before you organize the lynch mob, no one is trying to delay the release for more than the "two hours" it would take to change it. Sorry, guess I shoulda used a smiley. :) I'm fighting a URI is my excuse... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dshow Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 As far as i understood, they put the legacy category after the mono/stereo choice. Which is awesome for me Yes, this is how it is. Legacy is another sub-category under each effects type heading. So your choices are Mono, Stereo or Legacy. That makes sense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhead Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 ..... There was a little cherry-picking on that quote from me silverhead responded to. I also mentioned "future implementation" in that post. .... My apologies, HonestOpinion. My post was intended in a much more light-hearted fashion than it came across. That's the trouble with attempted humour in black and white text. I have no issues with you or your suggestion. I just think it's a bit premature. Peace! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I suggest we all wait until v2.50 is released, see how the implementation serves our needs/desires, and then continue this discussion. Seems to me that voting in Ideascale to change an implementation that does not yet exist is jumping the gun a bit? Hey man, this is 2018..."predictive complaining" is the future. Besides, with all these pre-conceived solutions desperately in search of problems... we might never finish b1tching if we don't start early. 😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehzim Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I thought it was a worthwhile suggestion so I upvoted it. But it's all good if not. It would just be easier to navigate I think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Best thread ever..."please change the stuff nobody has yet, because if my assumptions are correct, you guys f#$@ed it up." Which way to the rabbit hole? I'm going head first! 😂😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
requietus666 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 LOL, indeedthis is what happens if you tease with a "coming soon" and leak (give) some release technical details :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 LOL, indeed this is what happens if you tease with a "coming soon" and leak (give) some release technical details :-D Yup...good show in here today. And it's early. If we work at it, we could all be completely around the bend, mumbling to the buckles on our straight jackets before lunch. Frontal lobotomies with a thorazine chaser for everyone!🤕 "I found the tunnel, Johnson! It's this way! $25 for a cigarette is too much!"😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inerzia Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I don't know if it was a video or a pic, but I remember I saw Legacy under Mono and Stereo, as a third category which totally makes sense, because not only are they different architectures, but also, the channel configuration inside the legacy effects is not always what you would expect or want, depending on how your patch is organized.I wouldn't want to be skipping through legacy effects when I want to find some of the new and (IMO) better stuff, or viceversa, having to jump over greyed out HX names when my patch is so full that I just have juice enough for legacy stuff.Regarding the channel configurations of the legacy stuff: Maybe, in order to avoid constantly checking the list of stereo preserving effects, for next implementations, each legacy block could be accompanied by an icon that represented the channel configuration.Something like:-- Mono= Stereo>< for effects that collapse the signal to mono and have a stereo output-< mono input, stereo outputSimple but effective, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I wouldn't want to be skipping through legacy effects when I want to find some of the new and (IMO) better stuff, or viceversa... One man's "sublime" is another's "absurd". I feel for the engineers...if I had to decide which group of nutty, opinionated guitar players to placate, it would drive me to drink...especially now that the critiques start rolling in before anyone's actually gotten their hands on the product, lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stekrae Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Has anyone noticed the symbols behind the labels? Stereo symbols and a house (?) For legacy effects ?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 The house is the "home" button on Helix. Gets you back to square one/ 1st page on Helix and I assume its the same on HX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PierM Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 He's talking about the small house icon on the particle verb and synth string scribble strips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stekrae Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 The house is the "home" button on Helix. Gets you back to square one/ 1st page on Helix and I assume its the same on HX. I'm not that stupid either. ;-) He's talking about the small house icon on the particle verb and synth string scribble strips. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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