Helix 2.9

[JaH337]

9 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

Agree, vote it up.   https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Polyphonic-Everything/960087-23508

I've probably voted for it in 15 different places on ideascale.  The votes are there, apparently it can be done, so I'll just be patient.

[brue58ski]

21 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said:

I agree with everyone here who advises to use your ears but the more visual feedback the better IMHO. One of the advantages of digital modeling is that it has the capability to display additional information on a nice sized color screen, info that you don't get on analog pedals. I am happy to see meters coming. Would love to see other visual feedback as well. A visual on when the compressors cross the threshold and kick in would be great. Modifying the screen for the parametric EQ so that it is depicted visually and shows the frequency curve in the same fashion that Helix's Global EQ already provides would also be very useful. A RTA would also be a fine addition for dialing in the EQ. Makes sense to leverage the screen anywhere it adds value.

 

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/RTA-Real-Time-Analyzer-screen-for-the-Helix/805922-23508

 

Voted it up! Don't know if it's even possible in Helix but it would be amazing cool if it was. I'd use it....AND my ears.

[HonestOpinion]

10 minutes ago, brue58ski said:

 

Voted it up! Don't know if it's even possible in Helix but it would be amazing cool if it was. I'd use it....AND my ears.

 

Not sure whether it is possible either but perhaps the recent optimizations to the firmware enabling a quicker and more responsive screen that can now provide metering will eventually also allow an RTA.  Guess it also depends on how much processing overhead is involved.

[phil_m]

36 minutes ago, khiryos said:

May I ask if a MIDI tempo sync gonna happen with the looper (with specifying the number of bars to record)? And/Or a multichannel looper? Just to know if I have to buy a new gear next month, but I will understand if you prefer not to mention that information :)

 

I'd be surprised if that happens. Nothing is impossible, per se, but from what I understand, trying to shoehorn that sort of functionality (especially the multi-track looper thing) into the Helix architecture would be quite difficult.

[phil_m]

48 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said:

Would love to see other visual feedback as well. A visual on when the compressors cross the threshold and kick in would be great.

 

This is what the gain reduction meters will do.

[PierM]

 

On 1/20/2020 at 8:26 PM, SaschaFranck said:

 

Why? Do you have meters on your stomp boxes, too?

 

You have no dB level/gain stage on regular stomps, like helix does. And yes, pedals with boost functions are better too have a meter, isnt 1960 anymore. Compressors for sure they’d be better with a meter (MXR, Becos, Keeley, EH, etc...they have a full meter). Loop FX, same story. 

[SaschaFranck]

36 minutes ago, PierM said:

You have no dB level/gain stage on regular stomps, like helix does. And yes, pedals with boost functions are better too have a meter, isnt 1960 anymore. Compressors for sure they’d be better with a meter (MXR, Becos, Keeley, EH, etc...they have a full meter). Loop FX, same story. 

 

I never felt I needed a meter for a guitar compressor. But obviously, YMMV. And when you say "Loop FX", these are likely digital units, so they *do* need a meter at least on the input, for you to easily see whether you're clipping their inputs. But that's pretty irrelevant once the signal is converted already (for the same reasons you see no meters on, say, delay plugins).

Anyway, I'm not opposed to meters, not at all. In fact, for some things I absolutely welcome them.

[HonestOpinion]

1 hour ago, phil_m said:

 

This is what the gain reduction meters will do.

 

Fantastic news! What a great addition to the Helix. This device and the firmware for the entire HX line just keeps getting better!

[Lachdanan0121]

30 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

Fantastic news! What a great addition to the Helix. This device and the firmware for the entire HX line just keeps getting better!

Oh that is good news, and I wasn't expecting it. 

 

I was expecting input/output meters like HX Native. (which work decent enough, and aren't really my biggest excitement about meters in Helix)

The update mentioned "clip indicators." That is the thing about "metering" that I have really been wanting. I hope that it is on each individual block that is clipping.  Perhaps someone can shed some light on this aspect. Perhaps phil_m? I understand if you cannot discuss it. 

 

But now that I read it has gain reduction meters in the compressors, well that just makes us studio guys smile. This plus a few more models of compressors would please almost all users, and would open up even more doors for studio use. Way to go the extra mile on this!

 

Literally every update the Helix has got (that included new things) has been something to make me smile, and even more happy with my decision to go Helix. 

[khiryos]

1 hour ago, phil_m said:

 

I'd be surprised if that happens. Nothing is impossible, per se, but from what I understand, trying to shoehorn that sort of functionality (especially the multi-track looper thing) into the Helix architecture would be quite difficult.

 

Thanks for your reply. Okay, so let's only hope for the MIDI tempo sync feature :)

[khiryos]

1 hour ago, phil_m said:

 

This is what the gain reduction meters will do.

 

Wow, very nice!

[khiryos]

2 hours ago, JaH337 said:

Wanna check in and see if anyone knows if it's even possible for the Helix system to potentiallly update to include polyphonic pitch shifting?!  It has been mentioned soooo much here and many places on ideascale, if it can't be done just tell us. 

If it can.... please, it would bring so much 

~cheers

 

What would be totally crazy is if the audio-to-MIDI translation of polyphonic pitching blocks can be sent out of the MIDI out of the Helix, so that you could play your electric guitar and make sounds of your hardware synth with it.

[Lachdanan0121]

48 minutes ago, khiryos said:

 

What would be totally crazy is if the audio-to-MIDI translation of polyphonic pitching blocks can be sent out of the MIDI out of the Helix, so that you could play your electric guitar and make sounds of your hardware synth with it.

That, I imagine, would be a daunting task. I don't expect it will ever happen, but L6 has surprised us before. 

 

Though if it were to happen. That would be amazing. 

But I would like the audio-to-midi translation info to also be sent through USB, to control plugins on in the DAW. Even if it isn't real time. It could be great for transposing creativity. 

[SaschaFranck]

Well, there's Jam Origin already, doing just that, converting polyphonic guitar signals into MIDI without the need for a dedicated pickup. Obviously, certain things possible with a Hex pickup driven setup won't happen (mainly individual string transposition and different strings triggering different synth sounds), but otherwise there shouldn't be an intrinsic problem for L6 to not be able to pull something like that off.

Personally, I'd be a lot more interested in "direct synthesis", such as happening on the Boss SY-300 or on the various EHX pedals. But I'm sure this would come at plenty of CPU cost.

[khiryos]

33 minutes ago, SaschaFranck said:

Well, there's Jam Origin already, doing just that, converting polyphonic guitar signals into MIDI without the need for a dedicated pickup. Obviously, certain things possible with a Hex pickup driven setup won't happen (mainly individual string transposition and different strings triggering different synth sounds), but otherwise there shouldn't be an intrinsic problem for L6 to not be able to pull something like that off.

Personally, I'd be a lot more interested in "direct synthesis", such as happening on the Boss SY-300 or on the various EHX pedals. But I'm sure this would come at plenty of CPU cost.

 

Isn't it the same aspect? I mean, do internal bloc synths in the Helix already commit an audio-to-midi translation before sending these MIDI information to the synth? I thought it worked this way (this is why I would like to simply send these information out of the MIDI/USB port of the unit). If not, how does it work? And how do the pedals like the Boss/EHX ones work?

[phil_m]

29 minutes ago, khiryos said:

 

Isn't it the same aspect? I mean, do internal bloc synths in the Helix already commit an audio-to-midi translation before sending these MIDI information to the synth? I thought it worked this way (this is why I would like to simply send these information out of the MIDI/USB port of the unit). If not, how does it work? And how do the pedals like the Boss/EHX ones work?

 

There's no MIDI involved in any of the pitch shifting/harmonization or synth stuff on the Helix. The pitch shifters aren't doing any sort of pitch detection. They're just shifting the pitch by an interval. The harmony effects do have pitch detection. They're detecting the incoming pitch and output a harmonized one. There's no MIDI required for any of this. Same goes for the Boss/EHX effects as well. Boss did have monophonic pitch to MIDI conversion on the GT-100, but that's the only product of theirs that does that, I believe. Even the newer SY product don't do note ti MIDI.

[SaschaFranck]

49 minutes ago, khiryos said:

And how do the pedals like the Boss/EHX ones work?

 

Well, not via MIDI at least (as Phil already explained). Basically, they're nothing else but FX pedals as in that they're working straight with the guitar signal and manipulating it - but there's no conversion happening.

Either method has its pros and cons.

Anything converted to MIDI will more or less automatically result in things not exactly being guitar-like anymore. Slurs, glides, scratches, dead notes and what not, they all won't work as there's a) no sufficient detector/converter in those Hex pickup driven systems for such signals and b) no sufficient parameter set covering them in MIDI land (let alone on any target sound module). As a result, you will have to adjust your playing quite a bit (which usually is also required to make sure the conversion is working well without glitches) On the upside, you can use any "normal" synth and also do nifty things, such as individual string transpositions or such as sending each string to a different sound.

The "native" conversion (as happening in EHX/Boss pedals) doesn't allow for the latter, but on the upside, you don't need to adjust your playing style and even your slides and such will be transformed into whatever it might be.

There's also a kind of hybrid approach, such as used in the Variax guitars but also in Rolands VG series and now as well in their SY-1000.  For that, the signal is grabbed by a Hex pickup - hence each string is processed separately, which allows for individual string tunings but also offers vastly improved "native/direct" synthesis (without going the MIDI route). In the Variax guitars, the Hex pickup is used for individual string tuning and guitar/pickup modeling.

I think it'd be cool if Line 6 did something like the synth-ish stuff with their Variaxes, but I'm afraid it's pretty much a niche thing, so I wouldn't think it's likely to happen.

[BlueD]

19 minutes ago, phil_m said:

Boss did have monophonic pitch to MIDI conversion on the GT-100, but that's the only product of theirs that does that, I believe. Even the newer SY product don't do note ti MIDI.

 

Correct up to the SY-1000 I believe that has the 13 pin connector for a midi pickup. The type of synthesis done by the SY-300 / 1 whatever that's called, would be a game changer especially for players like me doing both electronic music and funk (with a bass).

[SaschaFranck]

Just now, BlueD said:

 

Correct up to the SY-1000 I believe that has the 13 pin connector for a midi pickup. The type of synthesis done by the SY-300 / 1 whatever that's called, would be a game changer especially for players like me doing both electronic music and funk (with a bass).

 

Yeah, for bass players that'd be extra cool. Wouldn't mind some synth-ish things for my guitar musings, though. Or at least something along the lines of EHX' POG/HOG series, which I find to be quite wicked.

[khiryos]

Thanks guys for your all your explanation about pitch detection.

[HonestOpinion]

21 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

...

There's also a kind of hybrid approach, such as used in the Variax guitars but also in Rolands VG series and now as well in their SY-1000.  For that, the signal is grabbed by a Hex pickup - hence each string is processed separately, which allows for individual string tunings but also offers vastly improved "native/direct" synthesis (without going the MIDI route). In the Variax guitars, the Hex pickup is used for individual string tuning and guitar/pickup modeling.

I think it'd be cool if Line 6 did something like the synth-ish stuff with their Variaxes, but I'm afraid it's pretty much a niche thing, so I wouldn't think it's likely to happen.

 

Seriously doubt it will ever happen but it would be great if Line6's next generation of Variax's(even better if it could be done on any of the existing models) included six separate output channels so that the Variax can be used not only for its current guitar/pickup modeling but also for polyphonic processing on a guitar synth. Never understood why this wasn't done years ago. Even if the Variax could provide hex output, unless they include an option to bypass the string recognition, a six-stream output probably won't work on a device like the Helix anyway. I would presume that if/when they do add polyphonic processing to HX firmware it will be designed to handle only a single-stream output from the guitar. 

 

I suppose now that there are devices like the SY-1000 there isn't as much need for hex processing but hex separated outputs still reportedly track better.  Roland themselves recommend using the GK input on the SY-1000 for superior tracking. It seems to me allowing the Variax to provide six-stream output would be a great way to get some added functionality out of the hex pickup. Technical barrier? I have a couple of guitar synths laying around I would love to use with my Variax :-)

 

Anyway, if we continue to see the evolution of the ability to essentially do "single-stream" polyphonic processing through pitch detection or whatever method(s) the SY-1000 uses rather than six separate output streams I suppose the demand for hex pickup processing will diminish, probably already has, dramatically. Not sure how single-stream polyphonic processing differentiates between two strings with the same note played on them. By timbre?

[Retro-Rick]

Thanks so much Line 6!!!

 

I'm surprised no one is praising the increased footswitch assignment, that's a huge wish I had. I usually do everything with snapshots instead of stomps, so I have to do the 2 button push to go from presets to snapshots which is annoying. Now I can have stomps and snapshots all together all on one layout, and just the mode button to go back to presets - Love it. Yeah and of course, like most everybody else, I'm excited to have meters too - Big thanks Again L6, Super well done. 2.9 is gonna rock! Hope to see it soon... :)

[themetallikid]

is there a place I can read some details about what was mentioned in the OP?  I keep hearing people talk about details and I don't know where they are getting them.  

[Retro-Rick]

There was a bit more info posted on TGP - here's most of it...

 

They're not really new footswitch modes. They're new commands that will be added to the Command Center, so the commands you assign to footswitches will show up in Stomp Mode (as all commands do now). There will be Preset, Snapshot and Looper commands.

With the Preset commands, you can assign any preset to any footswitch. Or you can assign the Preset Up or Preset Down command to any footswitch.

With the Snapshot commands, you'll be able to assign any snapshot to a footswitch in Stomp Mode, or the Snapshot Up or Snapshot Down. Additionally, you can have different snapshots assigned to the Press and Release functions of a footswitch. So you could program FS3, for instance, to go to Snapshot 4 while you're holding it down and then go to Snapshot 1 when you release it. So, it can kind of be a monentary snapshot if you want.

Then finally, you'll be able to assign Looper functions to footswitches in Stomp Mode. Again, there will be separate Press and Release functions... So you can start recording with pressing a footswitch and then stop recording when you release it. 

2.9 Model Updates:

-Revv Purple (Ch3)
-1x12 Fullerton and Grammatico Cabs
-Red Llama Drive
-Steve Vai Legendary Drive 
-Harmonic Antagonizer Fuzz
-Rochester Comp (Billy Sheehan Compressor)
-Small Stone Phaser
-Split Dynamics (Path A/B Routing)

Feature Updates:

-Output Meters
-Gain Reduction Meters
-Clip Indicators
-IR Attachment by Name
-New Switch/Snap/Looper Layout Options 
-New Model Subcategory Shortcuts
-Update from HX Edit
-A/B Compare for HX Native

Can anyone explain how the metering will work?

They appear in the inspector of the Output, Send, and FX Loop blocks. That's part of the reason we switched from page dots to a scrolling inspector line in 2.80—so we'd have room for the meters.

 

[DodgeGB]

Looks like another cracking update; I'd say I can't wait, but given the rancour around release dates last time, I'll politely say I CAN wait and enjoy it when it arrives. 

 

I do find it slightly odd that TGP gets more news than the official Line 6 forum though.  

 

[cruisinon2]

15 hours ago, Retro-Rick said:

Can anyone explain how the metering will work?

 

 

A bunch of little (but very reassuring) dancing multicolored lights...;)

[gunpointmetal]

8 hours ago, DodgeGB said:

I do find it slightly odd that TGP gets more news than the official Line 6 forum though.  

Much larger user base, many more retired dudes with expendable income.

 

I'm super stoked for 2.9 for that Revv Purple! And also because its 2.9 and not 3.0, which suggests to me that 3.0 might have even MORE goodies!

 

 

[themetallikid]

5 minutes ago, gunpointmetal said:

Much larger user base, many more retired dudes with expendable income.

 

I'm super stoked for 2.9 for that Revv Purple! And also because its 2.9 and not 3.0, which suggests to me that 3.0 might have even MORE goodies!

 

 

I agree, this is no 'small' update with what its bringing.  And if they are dropping this much in 2.9, 3.0 is gonna be phonemonal

[gunpointmetal]

DI did say that once HX Core was in place and everyone was on the same page it should make updates easier/faster. Can't wait to see what's coming.

[brue58ski]

I've been looking on line for the Steve Vai Legendary drive but all that comes up is the Steve Vai Legacy drive. Is it actually the Legacy drive?

[phil_m]

1 minute ago, brue58ski said:

I've been looking on line for the Steve Vai Legendary drive but all that comes up is the Steve Vai Legacy drive. Is it actually the Legacy drive?

 

Yes. I believe the Line 6 model name will be "Legendary Drive".

[themetallikid]

these last couple of updates have gotten me excited enough that I've researched online how things sound or how they are used.  I've never in the past done that (Boss/Fractal units), always just waited, then played around with stuff.  But there are some quality names of gear that have been coming through that get me interested in researching prior to the drop date.  

[guix]

Now if only 3.0 would have Flexible routing

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Helix-Flexible-Outputs/973066-23508?submitted=1 

[phil_m]

8 minutes ago, guix said:

Now if only 3.0 would have Flexible routing

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Helix-Flexible-Outputs/973066-23508?submitted=1 

 

I read through that a few times, and it's still not clear to me what you're asking for. I'm not sure what you want changed.

[SaschaFranck]

On 1/22/2020 at 9:57 AM, HonestOpinion said:

Seriously doubt it will ever happen but it would be great if Line6's next generation of Variax's(even better if it could be done on any of the existing models) included six separate output channels so that the Variax can be used not only for its current guitar/pickup modeling but also for polyphonic processing on a guitar synth. Never understood why this wasn't done years ago.

 

 

Well, let's face it, if things were made for us musicians (rather than in the interest of maximized profit), we wouldn't be dealing with any of that stuff. We'd have a Hex pickup signal format that would be accepted by both Line 6 and other companies devices. In addition, Line 6 would offer an external box to take care of the pickup modeling so you could use it on any guitar. Just the way Roland is doing things - which is a lot better in many aspects (the actual pickup design included, a slapped on GK pickup reacts a lot more authentic when it comes to things such as palm mutes - and yes, I have compared the two directly).

 

As is, we have to use a Variax in case we would like to take advance of the Helix/Variax interaction and a GK pickup slapped onto it to also use hex processing and Guitar-to-MIDI. The resulting guitar would be a complete ergonomic nightmare. Even more than what the current models already are (let's face it, from a strat style players POV, Variaxes are plain horrible, every single one of them).

 

Quote

I suppose now that there are devices like the SY-1000 there isn't as much need for hex processing but hex separated outputs still reportedly track better.  Roland themselves recommend using the GK input on the SY-1000 for superior tracking.

 

Well, it's not just because of the tracking. Once we're dealing with individual string transpositions, individual sounds per strings or things such as double bends when going Guitar-to-MIDI, hex pickups are absolutely required.

[hideout]

6 minutes ago, SaschaFranck said:

Roland is doing things - which is a lot better in many aspects (the actual pickup design included, a slapped on GK pickup reacts a lot more authentic when it comes to things such as palm mutes - and yes, I have compared the two directly).

This is likely due to the fact that a GK pickup is six magnetic pickups whereas the Variax uses piezos. This is one of the main disadvantages of piezos. The attack of piezo pickups is weird too and not an easy thing to overcome. Lastly, both Line6 and Roland need to work on emulating how a pickup reacts to impedance loads. 

[SaschaFranck]

49 minutes ago, hideout said:

This is likely due to the fact that a GK pickup is six magnetic pickups whereas the Variax uses piezos. This is one of the main disadvantages of piezos. The attack of piezo pickups is weird too and not an easy thing to overcome. Lastly, both Line6 and Roland need to work on emulating how a pickup reacts to impedance loads. 

 

Yeah well, the fact that the piezos are mounted inside the bridge certainly doesn't help with authentic PU behaviour, either.

[guix]

23 hours ago, phil_m said:

 

I read through that a few times, and it's still not clear to me what you're asking for. I'm not sure what you want changed.

 

Helix allows you to either select 1 output only for XLR and 1/4 inch  So for  Path1 , lets say vocals, I can use XLR. BUT as I use Line 6 Link for Path 2,my guitar, to connect to my powercab, there is no way to select the output of the guitar Path to ONLY Line 6 link, hence I need to use the MULTI selection, which sends my guitar ALSO via XLR.

So in order to avoid my guitar in the FOHI pan my vocals to the right and the guitar to the left in the output, also since powercab takes only the Left channel in as it works in mono. 

 

If I could select , like we could do in the POD X3, which outputs I can send per channel, I could send my vocal stereo to XLR and my guitar in stereo to my powercab... and get another powercab for a fullly stereo vocals and stereo guitar setup

 

Makes sense? Attached an image of the current set up

 

[phil_m]

1 hour ago, guix said:

 

Helix allows you to either select 1 output only for XLR and 1/4 inch  So for  Path1 , lets say vocals, I can use XLR. BUT as I use Line 6 Link for Path 2,my guitar, to connect to my powercab, there is no way to select the output of the guitar Path to ONLY Line 6 link, hence I need to use the MULTI selection, which sends my guitar ALSO via XLR.

So in order to avoid my guitar in the FOHI pan my vocals to the right and the guitar to the left in the output, also since powercab takes only the Left channel in as it works in mono. 

 

If I could select , like we could do in the POD X3, which outputs I can send per channel, I could send my vocal stereo to XLR and my guitar in stereo to my powercab... and get another powercab for a fullly stereo vocals and stereo guitar setup

 

Makes sense? Attached an image of the current set up

 

 

I bolded part of your response... There is a way to have Path 2 go just to L6 Link. Just set the Output block to Digital.

[PierM]

1 hour ago, guix said:

 

Helix allows you to either select 1 output only for XLR and 1/4 inch  So for  Path1 , lets say vocals, I can use XLR. BUT as I use Line 6 Link for Path 2,my guitar, to connect to my powercab, there is no way to select the output of the guitar Path to ONLY Line 6 link, hence I need to use the MULTI selection, which sends my guitar ALSO via XLR.

So in order to avoid my guitar in the FOHI pan my vocals to the right and the guitar to the left in the output, also since powercab takes only the Left channel in as it works in mono. 

 

If I could select , like we could do in the POD X3, which outputs I can send per channel, I could send my vocal stereo to XLR and my guitar in stereo to my powercab... and get another powercab for a fullly stereo vocals and stereo guitar setup

 

Makes sense? Attached an image of the current set up

 

 

You can;

 

path 1 mic to xlr, path 2 variax to digital output. Just select Digital in the output on Path 2.