Roland has figured it out

[DBCrocky]

You see it on their FC300 midi controller on the Boss GT100, and now on the Boss GT1000.

 

Bank Up and Bank Down belong on the top row of footswitches!  The reasons why are obvious.

 

Will Line6 ever figure this out?

[phil_m]

Do you want me to give you a list of things Roland hasn't figured out? Number one on that list is the concept that you shouldn't have to jump back and forth between two or three menus to make a control assignment...

 

But, seriously, having the Bank Up and Down switches up there seems kind of weird to me... If that were the case with the Helix, it would take away the ability to see two banks of presets at the same time.

[Kevin-M]

What are those reasons which you state to be obvious?

[cruisinon2]

Welcome to today's episode of "First World Minor Gripes That Will Be Forgotten By Lunch"...;)

[gunpointmetal]

Why is this better and not just different?

[mastodonrules]

Why does this even matter? They belong where the developers put them and then you get use to it. Thank you very much.

[cruisinon2]

17 minutes ago, mastodonrules said:

Why does this even matter? They belong where the developers put them and then you get use to it. Thank you very much.

 

Amen.

 

But I do love the smell of a meaningless existential crisis in the morning... smells like uselessness. ;)

[littleeden]

I’ll tell you why.  On embarrassingly more than one occasion at gigs, whilst attempting to switch on or off the stomp box I’ve assigned to foot switch 8 (I think), I’ve missed and changed patch.  Too easy to do in the heat of battle.

[DBCrocky]

LOL.  The first row is much easier to use in mid song, because you can rest your heal in front of the button and then just step down to hit it.  On the top row, you have to stab at it while standing on one foot.  The front row is the prime real estate on the board, and one of it's buttons is wasted on a button that you are only going to need in between songs.  Also, you end up hitting snapshot 1 alot, and it's easy to accidently hit the Bank Down button, and then you are in a world of hurt, trying to recover while playing (and maybe singing :o).  I velcro a strip of wood between the bank up/dn buttons and the next buttons to prevent this.   

 

I mean, wouldn't you rather have bank up/down on the top row, and five snapshots available on the bottom row?  I know I would.

 

Quote

Why does this even matter? They belong where the developers put them and then you get use to it. Thank you very much.

 

Wow.  Do you have a shrine to the developers in your bedroom?

[littleeden]

2 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

Welcome to today's episode of "First World Minor Gripes That Will Be Forgotten By Lunch"...;)

I believe you’ll find that’s true, not only of every discussion on this, or any other music forum, but also probably of every issue associated with the entire western music industry.

 

[gunpointmetal]

I had no idea switching was such a physically complicated endeavor. Who knew?

[mastodonrules]

49 minutes ago, DBCrocky said:

 

  Wow.  Do you have a shrine to the developers in your bedroom?

I do! How did you know? Lol. 

[PiFromBRC]

Okay...color me conspiratory, but first this guy (who has a registered product) said:

 

4 hours ago, DBCrocky said:

Bank Up and Bank Down belong on the top row of footswitches!  The reasons why are obvious.

 

and then this guy (with no registered products) said:
 

52 minutes ago, littleeden said:

I’ll tell you why.  On embarrassingly more than one occasion at gigs, whilst attempting to switch on or off the stomp box I’ve assigned to foot switch 8 (I think), I’ve missed and changed patch.

 

which suggests that it is at least possible that one person is posting from two profiles. 

[tjbassoon]

But there are functions to pressing both the Bank Up and Down buttons at the same time. This would be an order of magnitude more tricky to accomplish in the layout of the Boss products. Especially if you happen to not have wide feet, or are playing barefoot, or whatever. You basically lose that functionality of pressing both at once.

 

It's also not intuitively obvious. Up and Down are buttons respective to each other. Having them side by side means possibly having to guess which one is up and down. When they're laid out vertically you know the top one is up and the bottom one is down. Intuitively I figured it was Up on the left and Down on the right, but I'm wrong with respect to the Boss pedals.

[Kilrahi]

9 minutes ago, PiFromBRC said:

Okay...color me conspiratory, but first this guy (who has a registered product) said:

 

 

and then this guy (with no registered products) said:
 

 

which suggests that it is at least possible that one person is posting from two profiles. 

 

It's possible, but I've ran into people with this complaint before though. I faced it myself with the Firehawk FX which had presets on the bottom but stomp boxes on top. it seemed to make sense to switch them - or have some sort of lock feature because the stomp buttons are used for more often than the preset, and hitting a preset instead of a stomp switch can blow your sound out of the water REAL fast - whereas the reverse is not true.

 

What makes more sense is to have your switches controllable ala modern gaming which has been doing that for years. Perhaps on the HX successor?

 

At any rate, it is a potentially valid criticism, but it also falls quite clearly under first world problems. I don't own a full Helix, so it may be that this just does not make sense for most users of it.

 

I wouldn't go to Roland for nothing right now because even if you grant them this win I still consider the score to be about 98 - 2.

[PiFromBRC]

But...but...Bagel Warmer....string sanitizer...tooth whitener...

 

...at least a heated pick dispenser...

 

4 hours ago, Kilrahi said:

At any rate, it is a potentially valid criticism, but it also falls quite clearly under first world problems.

 

[DBCrocky]

I am not sure what my registered product is, lol.  Back in the 90's, I hated Line6 because I thought the Kidney Pod sounded awful.  Then I bought an MM4 because it was a good deal - you got like sixteen effects for $250, and you could have four of them available at a time.  What I didn't expect is that I would absolutely fall in love with the sound of these effect models.  They where/are full and lush and sweet, you can practically swim in them.  I bought the DL4 on the strength of the MM4, then the FL4?, then I bought the rack equivalents of these pedals.  To this day, I prefer Line6 effects over any thing else, including Roland/Boss, Digitech, TC Electronic, or even individual classic or boutique pedals.  More recently I bought a JTV-59 Variax and a Firehawk FX pedal to get control of it.  Love the JTV-59, and have since also acquired a Variax standard Strat.  Hate the Firehawk FX, this product was a rip-off and Line6 has no business continuing to sell it.  All of your bottom row switches are patch switches with the unavoidable dropout, and you have the choice of two completely lollipop user interfaces to try and program the thing.  It sit's in my back room, I'd sell it but I'd feel bad about doing that to someone.

 

So when the LT came out, I got one.  I love the Helix's effects of course, I also love it's user interface and ease of programmability, it's effects loops with easily controllable in and out levels, it's midi implementation, the programmable switch colors and it's indispensable Variax control.  Don't like the Bank Up/Down buttons as you now know, as someone pointed out, it's a rare minus out of many pluses.  I ain't rushing out to by a Boss multieffects unit, but it pains me to see them get this one thing right that really irritates me on the Helix.

 

The other thing I don't like about the LT is that it is a pedal board.  See, I know this will distress many of you fanboys, but I am still not fond of Line6's amp/cab models on their own.  I really want to, I have a small-ish practice room and I have everything going through the PA.  One guitar rig is simply a Two-Tones LeClean with a Hall of Fame Reverb and a tuner, and it sounds spectacular.  Just like it was a Fender Amp in the room, everyone that hears it comments on how great it sounds.  I tried the LT straight into the PA, and found it fizzy, gritty, and flat.  So I put my Soldano GTO Supercharger pedal in the FX Loop, and used it as a preamp into a cab simulator, and wow, night and day.  Guitar player friends who would never think of using a modeller can't believe how good it sounds without an amp.

 

However, I started playing with some folks in their practice space, and the other guitar player can't deal with me coming out of his monitors, and his board is crap.  I saw someone that said he had success with modellers by taking them into an effect return of a tube amp, effectively just using the tube power amp and speaker.  So I tried this into my Boogie MkIV, using the Helix's preamp models, and it's pretty good, definitely usable.  So the undeniable conclusion is that I am still, in 2019, a tube guy.

 

So with my heavy Boogie residing in another place, today I am building my dream guitar rig.  I purchased the Helix Rack and Floor Control.  I will run no amp or cab sims on the Helix, I will run tube preamps on the Helix FX Loops and take it out into an Egnator Tweaker running 2 6L6's into a 12" Celestion Creamback.  The Rack will let me keep all the connections neat and permanent, and I won't have to run a bunch of cables to my preamps and amp from a floorboard.   Wish me luck!

 

So yeah, I guess I should figure out what my ONE registered product is and get to registering the other ones, LOL!

[littleeden]

On 2/22/2019 at 7:15 PM, PiFromBRC said:

Okay...color me conspiratory, but first this guy (who has a registered product) said:

 

 

and then this guy (with no registered products) said:
 

 

which suggests that it is at least possible that one person is posting from two profiles. 

If you're suggesting that I'm that person, then you are wrong - have a look at my profile, and you'll see that I am a registered Helix LT owner.  Please DO NOT make assertions about me that you cannot back up.

 

You might have wanted to check some of my other posts on this forum as well, then you'd have seen this:

 

https://line6.com/support/topic/37347-pedalboard-for-helix-floor/?tab=comments#comment-273156

[brue58ski]

On 2/22/2019 at 11:15 AM, PiFromBRC said:

Okay...color me conspiratory, but first this guy (who has a registered product) said:

 

 

and then this guy (with no registered products) said:
 

 

which suggests that it is at least possible that one person is posting from two profiles. 

 

So this conspiratory color. I guess you've been colored. (wink wink)

[spikey]

Quote

So with my heavy Boogie residing in another place, today I am building my dream guitar rig.  I purchased the Helix Rack and Floor Control.  I will run no amp or cab sims on the Helix, I will run tube preamps on the Helix FX Loops and take it out into an Egnator Tweaker running 2 6L6's into a 12" Celestion Creamback.  The Rack will let me keep all the connections neat and permanent, and I won't have to run a bunch of cables to my preamps and amp from a floorboard.   Wish me luck!

 

I'm glad you found a purpose for Helix and I agree, with its multi in's and outs, with Helix it is basically a hard thing to not become the center of your rig! That's one idea Line 6 knocked out of the park. I love Roland too, BTW they were the 1st to perfect "Alternate Tunings" on the fly, back when a Line 6 rep here was telling us it couldn't be done on a Variax. I know this for a fact because I was here when he was saying this. Yea u had to have an" attachment" added to your guitar to do it, but still.  So I have a lot of respect for Roland's early ideas and gear, as some of it was a trendsetter for future products from other companies we enjoy today. I also think that everyone is entitled to their rig layout and opinions on how to make it better, and just because we all have "a better way" doesn't mean we really believe Line 6 is going to change their ways of doing things. ; ) Could the over-all design of Helix be better? Sure, just like everything else made in the world, including us. Good luck DB!

[PiFromBRC]

6 hours ago, brue58ski said:

 

So this conspiratory color. I guess you've been colored. (wink wink)

 

Could be.  I'm still holding out for the heated pick holder.

[ricksteruk]

I love my Helix - but those bank switches! Grr!!  When I'm singing and playing guitar and have to switch to a new snapshot it's so frustrating when I accidentally hit Bank Down.

 

I wish you could move the bank switches to the right hand side of Helix Floor - the lower left foot switch is the easiest one to identify and not hit any others in the process. That would be the one I'd assign for the tricky changes.

[brue58ski]

22 hours ago, PiFromBRC said:

 

Could be.  I'm still holding out for the heated pick holder.

 

Oooooooo. Nice! I'm waiting for the automatic string changer.

[DBCrocky]

21 hours ago, ricksteruk said:

I love my Helix - but those bank switches! Grr!!  When I'm singing and playing guitar and have to switch to a new snapshot it's so frustrating when I accidentally hit Bank Down.

 

I wish you could move the bank switches to the right hand side of Helix Floor - the lower left foot switch is the easiest one to identify and not hit any others in the process. That would be the one I'd assign for the tricky changes.

Exactly - but I wouldn't want to move the Tap switch from the bottom row, you might often need that mid-song.  I solved the issue by velcroing a strip of would between the Bank buttons and the first snapshot buttons. 

 

Not sure why Line6 tolerates people harassing folks for discussing Helix features they like and don't like.  Maybe they think they get brownie points for quelching all opinions that Helix is not absolutely perfect.    What an unfriendly forum!

[duncann]

1 hour ago, brue58ski said:

 

Oooooooo. Nice! I'm waiting for the automatic string changer.

 

I'm waiting for the day someone invents self-healing strings.

 

[gunpointmetal]

1 hour ago, DBCrocky said:

Not sure why Line6 tolerates people harassing folks for discussing Helix features they like and don't like.  Maybe they think they get brownie points for quelching all opinions that Helix is not absolutely perfect.    What an unfriendly forum!

Line 6 has more company presence over at The Gear Page, and the mods here are the biggest fanboys on the planet. This thread is pretty tame and would hardly qualify as harassment, though.

[littleeden]

On 2/24/2019 at 8:41 PM, PiFromBRC said:

 

Could be.  I'm still holding out for the heated pick holder.

Yeah, well, I'm still holding out for an apology for your baseless accusation.  Guess we're both gonna be disappointed.  Boo hoo.

[spikey]

Quote

This thread is pretty tame and would hardly qualify as harassment, though.

 

Agreed. I've had worse scratches on my eyeball.  ; )

[HonestOpinion]

Not a top priority for me but I've always thought the more flexibility when it comes to what a footswitch can control the better. The player  can then place things like the bank switches, or even tuner and mode switches, where they see fit, or assign switches to another function entirely such as extra stomps(two extras stomps already available via the Helix's "Stomp Mode Switches" global option but only in the Stomp layout ). Ideally you could retain a few pre-configured footswitch layouts(as we have now) and also have the option to let users assign the footswitches in the layout and positions that works best for them . Any footswitch, any available function. That level of flexibility easily accommodates anybody's favorite footswitch layout - the left-footed, large-footed, club-footed, bare-footed, fetid-footed, etc..

[PiFromBRC]

On 2/25/2019 at 1:53 PM, littleeden said:

Yeah, well, I'm still holding out for an apology for your baseless accusation.  Guess we're both gonna be disappointed.  Boo hoo.

 

Okay, you precious, delicate, little flower.  I apologize for *suggesting*, and I quote, " it is at least possible that one person is posting from..." .  Does that apology match your desires?  I could get you a warm bagel if that would help.  Pick warmer is up to L6 though.

[neptar]

Only had my helix LT a few days is there not a way to change the preset up and down buttons and reassign them? Never played the helix floor, but when I read the differences between it and the LT I am sure it said you can control 10 pedals in stomp box mode rather than 8 on the LT. Does this mean the bank up and down can be replaced with stomps where as you can't on the LT? Don't see why it shouldn't be an option on the full fat helix to be able to swap the bank up and down if you want to. The only reason I can think is because patches wouldn't work on the LT version with the virtual scribble strips as it only shows 8 buttons. I can see why it's easy to make the mistake when in snapshot mode in a dark environment. 

[brue58ski]

On 2/25/2019 at 12:30 PM, duncann said:

 

I'm waiting for the day someone invents self-healing strings.

 

Even better!!!

[littleeden]

12 hours ago, PiFromBRC said:

 

Okay, you precious, delicate, little flower.  I apologize for *suggesting*, and I quote, " it is at least possible that one person is posting from..." .  Does that apology match your desires?  I could get you a warm bagel if that would help.  Pick warmer is up to L6 though.

Yes that’s fine, thank you very much.  I prefer my picks cold, though.

[jbuhajla]

Any minute now, Andy Summer's tone will be mentioned...

[silverhead]

We all know that Andy Summer's tone cannot be replicated on Helix. Especially his Message in a Bottle tone. Perhaps on Axe FX because it's so much better.

[cruisinon2]

Who's Andy Summers? ;)

[datacommando]

Where is Andy Summers? ;)

[spikey]

Last time I saw him he was playing a song next to Sting, without an amp... The tone was great as usual.... ; )

[jmp22684]

And then people wonder why line 6 spends more time in thegearpage

 

It's a waste of time here sometimes.

 

I visit this forums constantly looking for useful threads and ideas, but it's always crap like this and repeat questions after repeat after repeat. Jesus people!

[datacommando]

I’m sure that you have said that before!

 

At least, for a little time, they have stopped complaining about the tuner and asking when the latest firmware will drop! 

 

Andy Summers is a mildly amusing distraction while everyone waits for the new Firmware then they can all start to whine about that. ;-)