Actual Helix 3.0 news (kind of)

[brue58ski]

This was posted on the Line 6 Helix Family Facebook page yesterday.

 

 

I am half suspecting the dark horse has something to do with the Variax since those products mentioned are the only ones that have the VDI input for the Varaix. But that would be a huge unsubstantiated rumor.

[SaschaFranck]

I'm quite afraid that the update won't bring much of interest for me personally. OTOH, I'm sure it'll bring quite some things to the tables of most people. Guess that's how things go (and yes, as much as I like the Helix, as much as I will likely not sell it, either, I'm actually looking for an alternative when it comes to live playing, the GT-1000 checking a lot of my boxes...).

[datacommando]

7 hours ago, brue58ski said:

This was posted on the Line 6 Helix Family Facebook page yesterday.

Aw, you beat me to it - I was going to post the self same info but, I was hanging back to see if Eric, or any other Line 6 staffer, would bother to post that same notice in this forum.

Nope!

 

This really is the last resort, guys!

 

Oh, and TGP got this from a Frank R this a.m. “3.0 is going to be sweeet”

 

Plus, this from DI, regarding v3.0 manuals

 

“They're still not going to have in-depth discussions on each and every model, and some of the 3.0 models definitely require reading the Release Notes (or at least watching a video) to get the most out of 'em.”

 

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by datacommando
Added quote

[PierM]

Damn! Im selling my Helix Rack....but now Im curious.... :D

[vstrattomusic]

Nice bro, can't wait for it to be released in 1 year minimum, like 2.80..

[Dogaral]

This is an upgrade that will work on the helix lt?  It's the same for helix and helix LT?  Sorry for noob confirming things. 

 

Want to know if I should be excited about this - I think I should!  :-)

[HonestOpinion]

15 hours ago, brue58ski said:

This was posted on the Line 6 Helix Family Facebook page yesterday.

 

 

I am half suspecting the dark horse has something to do with the Variax since those products mentioned are the only ones that have the VDI input for the Varaix. But that would be a huge unsubstantiated rumor.

 

Hmm, mysterious. Even though "dark horse" was listed under "The Bad" it could be a good thing. 

 

Merriam Webster definition of dark horse:

: a usually little known contender (such as a racehorse) that makes an unexpectedly good showing

[qwerty42]

26 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

Hmm, mysterious. Even though "dark horse" was listed under "The Bad" it could be a good thing. 

 

Merriam Webster definition of dark horse:

: a usually little known contender (such as a racehorse) that makes an unexpectedly good showing

The 'bad' aspect of it that DI was referring to was that the Stomp and Pod GO won't be getting it, whatever it is. He meant that it's something cool/good, but unfortunately only Floor/LT/Rack will have it.

[datacommando]

10 hours ago, vstrattomusic said:

Nice bro, can't wait for it to be released in 1 year minimum, like 2.80..

Someone on TGP mentioned Spring 2021 to which DI replied - “Oh jeez, I hope not!“

[datacommando]

11 hours ago, Dogaral said:

This is an upgrade that will work on the helix lt?  It's the same for helix and helix LT?

Well, judging from Eric’s post to the Facebook group it would appear that only a certain mysterious “dark horse” part of this update will apply to all the dual processor units - LT, Floor and Rack. Oh, yeah, they also have the VDI interface for Variax.

 

As for where this will leave Stomp and FX users the is no mention, which is rather odd as the changes to the Core OS was supposed to align everything in the Helix product range.
 

Although, if they don’t have the processing muscle...

[brue58ski]

7 hours ago, Dogaral said:

This is an upgrade that will work on the helix lt?  It's the same for helix and helix LT?  Sorry for noob confirming things. 

 

Want to know if I should be excited about this - I think I should!  :-)

 

Yes. The same for the Helix floor rack & LT.

[shanecgriffo]

it’s obvious..Bad Horsie pedal?! 

[datacommando]

4 minutes ago, shanecgriffo said:

 

it’s obvious..Bad Horsie pedal?! 

 

Nay, nay, nay, (neigh) - could it be the Dark Horse Fuzz?

[Lachdanan0121]

15 hours ago, datacommando said:

 

This really is the last resort, guys!

Yes, it is.

I hardly even come to these forums anymore.  I get more information, faster, with less snark from TGP. Which I find amusing, and I am sure won't last long.

 

That said, I am excited about 3.0.

I don't even know what is coming in it, I just hope it actually is a big update.

I do hope for some HX reverbs, or EQ sections put into current HX reverbs, and maybe some L6 original amps. 

[kraftybob]

17 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

I'm quite afraid that the update won't bring much of interest for me personally. OTOH, I'm sure it'll bring quite some things to the tables of most people. Guess that's how things go (and yes, as much as I like the Helix, as much as I will likely not sell it, either, I'm actually looking for an alternative when it comes to live playing, the GT-1000 checking a lot of my boxes...).

What the GT-1000 does for you live that the Helix doesn't?  I don't know much about Boss multi-effects so I'm truly curious.  It must be pretty significant seeing you've already invested time and money into the Helix, but are still considering switching.

[SaschaFranck]

2 hours ago, kraftybob said:

What the GT-1000 does for you live that the Helix doesn't?  I don't know much about Boss multi-effects so I'm truly curious.  It must be pretty significant seeing you've already invested time and money into the Helix, but are still considering switching.

 

- Global tweaking options for individual blocks. This is a huge one for me, possibly the most important one. For the gigs I play, I often need to adjust sounds on the fly and soundchecks don't allow for that throughout multiple patches. Let alone doing anything during a gig. As a result of that, I only use one patch per gig with the Helix, which - obviously - is quite limiting.

 

- Sort of along these lines: Patch switching on the GT-1000 is way faster and at least the main reverb and delay typically allow for spillover when switching. Along with the global adjustment options this makes using different patches even more convenient.

 

- Better visibility under diffuse daylight conditions. It's quite likely that I'll be doing plenty of outside gigs during the next 2-3 years and anything regarding visibility is downright horrible with the Helix. A major design flaw, looks as if they haden't even remotely tested the unit under such conditions. Admittedly, I have only once seen a GT-1000 on an open air stage, but I have compared the two to each other in a rather well lit shop (daylight through windows included) and the GT-1000 looked *much* better.

 

- Smaller footprint. Unlike the Helix, the GT-1000 fits nicely inside, say, a dual gigbag, some standard backpacks and what not. I may have some use for that next year, too. Yeah, as a tradeoff, it needs an external PSU, but I can live with that (in fact, I even own at least 2 suitable ones that I could spread around in my gigbags, should I forget the one delivered).

 

- Availability of a mobile editor. I don't have much of a need for a laptop anymore (basically not at all), on the road a tablet usually just suits me fine. But you can't edit the Helix from a tablet (and yes, I know my way around on the unit itself quite well, but I hate crawling on the floor). So far, Line 6 refuses to come up with anything like that (would be easily possible using the USB port) and I doubt they will ever change that.

 

- Hardware quality is likely a tad better. Didn't have issues with my Helix yet, but my unit had the tap tempo switch replaced under its previous owner already. I owned quite some Line 6 and Boss devices over all these decades, some of the Line 6 things broke (Pod XT, Shortboard, M13, POD 2 got kinda wonky as well) whereas I didn't have a faulty Boss unit even once (and both my GT-5 and GT-10 have seen plenty of decent beating). Whatever, Boss has a tradition of building things that last, which is sort of the opposite of my Line 6 experience.

As said, I will likely not have to sell the Helix but could just buy a GT-1000 in addition (I won't be doing it right now with the C19 dilemma in full effect anyway). Might give me the best of both worlds.

[codamedia]

4 hours ago, datacommando said:

judging from Eric’s post to the Facebook group it would appear that only a certain mysterious “dark horse” part of this update will apply to all the dual processor units - LT, Floor and Rack. Oh, yeah, they also have the VDI interface for Variax.

 

I doubt the Dark Horse feature would be tied to an extra piece of hardware such as the Variax....  just a fraction of users would benefit from it. 

IMO...Attaching the Dark Horse feature to "dual processors" is more likely. 

 

My guess.... FWIW....

• The "manual" ability to jump paths easily and whenever you want so you can retain signal flow while better balancing DSP usage
  OR
• Smart "auto" DSP allocation that isn't tied to each path.....  eg: If path A needs more power, it automatically assigns a block to the other processor and vice versa.

[Schmalle]

I'd guess that dark horse thing is some kind of profiling. Like Fractal Audios realtime analyzer block or something...

[PiFromBRC]

The toaster, cup warmer, and espresso externals are finally coming to fruition.  Sorry, POD guys...he did warn you.

[Rattlehed]

On 8/26/2020 at 10:42 AM, Schmalle said:

I'd guess that dark horse thing is some kind of profiling. Like Fractal Audios realtime analyzer block or something...

 

That was shot down on the Facebook thread.

[Schmalle]

2 hours ago, Rattlehed said:

 

That was shot down on the Facebook thread.

Aha. Well, that was just a wild guess. Personally don't really care. The only thing that I'm interested as an update is eight blocks available on the HxStomp, because that limit seems arbitrary and not related to actual available processing power. That said: I'm looking forward to be surprised.

[Lynxpaw]

18 hours ago, Schmalle said:

Aha. Well, that was just a wild guess. Personally don't really care. The only thing that I'm interested as an update is eight blocks available on the HxStomp, because that limit seems arbitrary and not related to actual available processing power. That said: I'm looking forward to be surprised.

How is the limit arbitrary? That makes zero sense. 

[codamedia]

1 hour ago, Lynxpaw said:

How is the limit arbitrary? That makes zero sense. 

 

The block limit on a Stomp is not directly related to DSP power. It might have been carefully chosen by Line 6 in order to market the product against the others in it's line, but it was not related to the processing power. 

 

Contrast that with a Helix Floor, LT or Rack. We can have 16 blocks on a single processor (32 in total). How many we can actually use will vary with the amps/effects choices we make, but it's our choice to make. 

[Lynxpaw]

1 hour ago, codamedia said:

 

The block limit on a Stomp is not directly related to DSP power. It might have been carefully chosen by Line 6 in order to market the product against the others in it's line, but it was not related to the processing power. 

 

According to who/what logic?

[Thehook]

2 hours ago, Lynxpaw said:

According to who/what logic?

Common sense. I agree with codamedia. The Stomp has one chip, but the same one used by the all the Helix family (at least from what I've read).  The HX also has one chip and can do 9.(12 in v3.0?) A single path on the floor can do 16. Sure seems that was by design, not necessity.  Six blocks fit well in the display, but we have to scroll for most parameters anyway.

I can do most things I need with the 6 (and other pedals) but it would be nice to have the full use of the DSP to add effects in the loops or an additional controller to the 6 blocks.

[Lynxpaw]

12 hours ago, Thehook said:

Common sense. I agree with codamedia. The Stomp has one chip, but the same one used by the all the Helix family (at least from what I've read).  The HX also has one chip and can do 9.(12 in v3.0?) A single path on the floor can do 16. Sure seems that was by design, not necessity.  Six blocks fit well in the display, but we have to scroll for most parameters anyway.

I can do most things I need with the 6 (and other pedals) but it would be nice to have the full use of the DSP to add effects in the loops or an additional controller to the 6 blocks.

 

That's not common sense, that's you making a wild guess.  Try again. 

[SaschaFranck]

29 minutes ago, Lynxpaw said:

 

That's not common sense, that's you making a wild guess.  Try again. 

 

Well, I thought it was pretty much common sense. From all that is "officially" known, the Stomp seems to have half the processing power of the bigger units, so to me it absolutely makes sense to assume the block limit wouldn't be caused by DSP limitations but rather by design decisions.

Now, there might be some more points to consider (plain guesswork on my part, but still), such as there being other tasks the DSP is needed for. Things such as controlling the audio interface portion, the I/O routing and what not. With the stomp, the CPU overhead caused by these might be somewhat higher than with the Floor. Also, due to the smaller size, maybe Line 6 doesn't want to get the CPU taxed as much because it might heat up too much otherwise.

And yet, in the end we're talking 6 vs. 16 blocks, which is a *huge* difference - a difference that couldn't be justified by my speculation above.

 

Someone owning both units could actually compare things quite easily by loading some the most CPU intensive blocks into either unit (which will easily bring the DSP of a single path on the Floor down to it's knees with just 3 blocks).

 

Thinking about it, I could even try that myself with Helix Native in Stomp/Floor compatibility mode. Well, in fact, I just did so. HXN in Stomp compatibility mode is offering the same amount of CPU as a single path of the Helix Floor. And as HXN patches are 1:1 compatible with the respective hardware, it should be pretty clear that the block limit is *not* a result of DSP limitations.

There we go, no guesswork at all, plain facts.

[Schmalle]

FYI a resource that puts some dsp usage percentages to the table:

http://benvesco.com/store/helix-dsp-allocations/

It was discussed on this forum before.

[codamedia]

20 hours ago, Lynxpaw said:

According to who/what logic?

 

Well, being a user forum I guess it's according to "ME" and "My Logic" :) 

I stand behind my post... which (if quoted in full) explained my reasoning. 

[Thehook]

5 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

Well, I thought it was pretty much common sense. From all that is "officially" known, the Stomp seems to have half the processing power of the bigger units, so to me it absolutely makes sense to assume the block limit wouldn't be caused by DSP limitations but rather by design decisions.

Now, there might be some more points to consider (plain guesswork on my part, but still), such as there being other tasks the DSP is needed for. Things such as controlling the audio interface portion, the I/O routing and what not. With the stomp, the CPU overhead caused by these might be somewhat higher than with the Floor. Also, due to the smaller size, maybe Line 6 doesn't want to get the CPU taxed as much because it might heat up too much otherwise.

And yet, in the end we're talking 6 vs. 16 blocks, which is a *huge* difference - a difference that couldn't be justified by my speculation above.

 

Someone owning both units could actually compare things quite easily by loading some the most CPU intensive blocks into either unit (which will easily bring the DSP of a single path on the Floor down to it's knees with just 3 blocks).

 

Thinking about it, I could even try that myself with Helix Native in Stomp/Floor compatibility mode. Well, in fact, I just did so. HXN in Stomp compatibility mode is offering the same amount of CPU as a single path of the Helix Floor. And as HXN patches are 1:1 compatible with the respective hardware, it should be pretty clear that the block limit is *not* a result of DSP limitations.

There we go, no guesswork at all, plain facts.

Thanks. That makes it clearer who was " wild guessing "and  who was using common sense and reasoning....

Way too serious...let's just enjoy the update  when it comes..

[BBD_123]

9 hours ago, Lynxpaw said:

That's not common sense, that's you making a wild guess.  Try again. 

 

One other possibility re the Stomp six block limit is to avoid thermal shutdown. Stomps are small, unventilated enclosures and they get *hot*. I think the way Stomp works is you either max out the available DSP or you can go up to six blocks, whichever happens first. Either way, this may be an engineering constraint on the amount of work the processor is required to do, which limits how hot it will get in use.

[datacommando]

As nobody from Line 6, their Ambassadors or Beta Testers,  appears to want to chime in to this thread to clarify some things, and everybody else cannot be bothered to check what has been posted about this stuff elsewhere (at least 6 days ago. - Yes, I know some folks are FaceBook averse).

 

Here’s what DI says about the HX Stomp and blocks etc.

 

Oh, yeah, and in another post, Eric also pointed out that the “dark horse” thing will not be included in HX Native.

Hope this helps/makes sense

 

 

 

 

 

[Lynxpaw]

12 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

Well, I thought it was pretty much common sense. From all that is "officially" known, the Stomp seems to have half the processing power of the bigger units, so to me it absolutely makes sense to assume the block limit wouldn't be caused by DSP limitations but rather by design decisions.

Now, there might be some more points to consider (plain guesswork on my part, but still), such as there being other tasks the DSP is needed for. Things such as controlling the audio interface portion, the I/O routing and what not. With the stomp, the CPU overhead caused by these might be somewhat higher than with the Floor. Also, due to the smaller size, maybe Line 6 doesn't want to get the CPU taxed as much because it might heat up too much otherwise.

And yet, in the end we're talking 6 vs. 16 blocks, which is a *huge* difference - a difference that couldn't be justified by my speculation above.

 

Someone owning both units could actually compare things quite easily by loading some the most CPU intensive blocks into either unit (which will easily bring the DSP of a single path on the Floor down to it's knees with just 3 blocks).

 

Thinking about it, I could even try that myself with Helix Native in Stomp/Floor compatibility mode. Well, in fact, I just did so. HXN in Stomp compatibility mode is offering the same amount of CPU as a single path of the Helix Floor. And as HXN patches are 1:1 compatible with the respective hardware, it should be pretty clear that the block limit is *not* a result of DSP limitations.

There we go, no guesswork at all, plain facts.

2nd paragraph; ‘plain guesswork on my part’

 

last paragraph; ‘no guesswork at all, just plain facts’

 

 

So which one is it, armchair computer genius? 

[BlueD]

On 8/25/2020 at 8:44 AM, brue58ski said:

I am half suspecting the dark horse has something to do with the Variax since those products mentioned are the only ones that have the VDI input for the Varaix. But that would be a huge unsubstantiated rumor.

 

Or could be the larger screen or command center, also only featured on those three units. Who knows, time will tell.

[Dogaral]

3 hours ago, Lynxpaw said:

2nd paragraph; ‘plain guesswork on my part’

 

last paragraph; ‘no guesswork at all, just plain facts’

 

 

So which one is it, armchair computer genius? 

I saw a very simple difference in the points he was contributing as guesswork in 2nd paragraph to the facts about how it works in the last paragraph.  Seemed really clear and interesting to me. 

[Dogaral]

23 minutes ago, BlueD said:

 

Or could be the larger screen or command center, also only featured on those three units. Who knows, time will tell.

I thought this update was just something you get free for the hardware you already own? a bigger screen could be the bestest download ever!

[SaschaFranck]

5 hours ago, Lynxpaw said:

2nd paragraph; ‘plain guesswork on my part’

 

last paragraph; ‘no guesswork at all, just plain facts’

 

 

So which one is it, armchair computer genius? 

 

Dude, I have actually *proven* that the Stomp delivers pretty much exactly half the CPU power of the Floor - as in "scientifically proven". I actually could have deleted the guesswork paragraph but kept it for completeness (it was just a little sidestep speculation anyway, about why the Stomp could possibly deliver slightly less than half the CPU juice - which, in the end, it doesn't). The last paragraph was kinda like a "hold on, let me quickly try that" thing. Which is what I did.

[TheBoyWithDog]

Hx stomp does so much that it’s insane. I often debate in my head how two stomps can have unique advantages over a floor. So I have an unsubstantiated guess for thought about 3.0 - What if dark horse is two smaller presets, instead of one, where you can switch the preset of one dsp chip while you play on the other? Not sure how possible that is on a single unit but it’s possible with two stomps, an external switcher and some timely foot switching.

 

It’s a cool performance-based advantage of two smaller units and if it were updated to a bigger unit then it would require two dsp chips(technically already does).

 

Had to throw it out there!

[TheBoyWithDog]

6 hours ago, Dogaral said:

I thought this update was just something you get free for the hardware you already own? a bigger screen could be the bestest download ever!

Ha ha He’s saying the update could use the larger screen which is only found on those units- or the command center which is another Floor, Lt, rack exclusive.

 

However the command center is coming to stomp in the same update so it’s not really an exclusive.

[brue58ski]

Since datacomando said that the "dark horse" won't be in Native, that slightly reinforces my huge guess that it's going to be Variax related. Of course, obviously, time will tell. I can't think of anything else that would only apply to those 3 products.