So... Line 6 Litigator inspired by boutique mid-gain amps - DISCUSS ! :)

[d0stenning]

Is this ... Dumple-esque perchance ? 

 

Who's tried it already ?

 

Do tell.

 

I'll wait a bit before updating.

[silverhead]

I've tried it and loved it immediately. A great crunchy/gritty sound but also cleans up very nicely.

[PeterHamm]

Doesn't clean up enough for my use to really sound clean, but it sounds fantastic.

[HonestOpinion]

'Litigator'? Is this the John Grisham model? I intend to lawyer up and give this baby a spin, until then I will leave any reviews to the court of public opinion.  ;)

[Zzz123]

Agree with Peter here, doesn't clean up enough but feels and sounds good!

[d0stenning]

Doesn't clean up enough for my use to really sound clean, but it sounds fantastic.

 

maybe combine it with Matchless in a patch with snapshots ?

 

 

one for hairy > OD  the other for clean 

[Jos_K]

It sounds very nice! And yes, easy to find your Mayer/Ford/Carlton tone here! Very, very excited about this one!

[MusicLaw]

I like the name Line 6 chose for the Amp! ;)

If Line 6 does a Cleaner (yet sonically complex) amp version, they can name it the "Negotiator!"

[vmoncebaiz]

I like the name Line 6 chose for the Amp! ;)

If Line 6 does a Cleaner (yet sonically complex) amp version, they can name it the "Negotiator!"

 

 

I like that. 

[Garhel]

I know everyone's going crazy about the Archon, but this is my favourite of the new models so far, hardly touched a thing and it just feels and sounds fantastic. Really good job. Enjoying the Archon clean channel as well, will definitely be spending some time building some patches around these amps...

[spikey]

Is this ... Dumple-esque perchance ? 

 

Who's tried it already ?

 

Do tell.

 

I'll wait a bit before updating.

I turned on the gain pedal on this, adjusted to taste and then had to be told an hour later to stop playing and come eat! Lol I LOVE IT!

[glideman]

LoL

[MonkeyXT]

Similar to above; I dialed it up, tweaked a bit, tried a couple of different drive pedals for a bit of push in front, and turned that on and off here and there... not one other thing in the patches... next thing I know, an hour has gone by, and my ears have grown accustomed to that super-present 'in-the-room' dry sound because of the lovely characteristics of this sound chain - super articulate and super responsive to picking dynamics; I'd class it among the top in that quality, and it's one that I consider vital (as do many others without a doubt).

[Guitarzman]

"If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you
have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?"

[BoneToner]

I love this new amp! It sounded a bit fender-y to me though but with more gain, so I A/B'd it with almost identical settings to the US Deluxe NRM and found them to sound basically the same when the deluxe had double the gain that the litigator had, so if you're looking for a cleaner sound too match/go with the litigator you could try that out.

[Dshow]

The new Litigator is an excellent sounding model. I've tried it with an Marshall cab (IR). It adds a lot of headroom and cleans up nicely.

 

My guess is that it was modelled after a Dumble Overdrive Special.

[willjrock]

I guess im in the minority here. Its the exact same thing as the whowatt with a bit more gain and bass.. Its a sound i was already getting from the helix just fine, before the update. Heres a clip. Whoawatt with an overdrive in front of it and then the litigator without an overdrive. all pretty much at their default settings. I think i had to turn the bass the whole way down on the litigator.

 

dont take my word for it try it for yourself. There is A LOT of overlap in helix amps. The majority of them sound the same.

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26654830/dumbwhatt%282%29.wav

[ronnief83]

 There is A LOT of overlap in helix amps. The majority of them sound the same.

Well, I have the same experience with real amps. ;)

The are few original schematics in tube amps world, everything else is just modifications.

[willjrock]

Well, I have the same experience with real amps. ;)

The are few original schematics in tube amps world, everything else is just modifications.

I get it. There are only so many types of "guitar distortion",  and in the digital world even less - depending on what you are modeling - but your point kind of underscores my point in that - If you want to give the people more tones to work with, then give them more  - or make more improvements - to the cabs...which incidentally, that section still needs a lot of work in helix....instead of giving them a sound they already have in a different box.

 

In the analog game the cabinet may be 50% of your tone but in the modeling world its closer to 90%.

[markman87]

I get it. There are only so many types of "guitar distortion", and in the digital world even less - depending on what you are modeling - but your point kind of underscores my point in that - If you want to give the people more tones to work with, then give them more - or make more improvements - to the cabs...which incidentally, that section still needs a lot of work in helix....instead of giving them a sound they already have in a different box.

 

In the analog game the cabinet may be 50% of your tone but in the modeling world its closer to 90%.

While I disagree with pretty much everything you say, I do think they'll overhaul the cabs. I just think that that process is much more intensive and needs more work at an fundamental level. In the mean time I'm glad to have another amp thrown in the mix. Sure you could take another amp and make it sound close to something else, but a lot of players like that the starting point are closer to a specific sound. So instead of tweaking the AC30 to sound like the Fawn model, you just pick the Fawn. Instead of getting a hod rod Marshall out of a Plexi or Jcm with pedals and stuff, you just pick the 2204 mod and you're good to go.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing deeper tweaks and overhauls make their way to our Helices, but even now I'm enjoying this box a lot, and I'm glad to see the improvements in this latest update. I know they were focusing on the whole switch less function since that was very much requested. At the same time they gave us some extra stuff as well ;)

[ronnief83]

If you want to give the people more tones to work with, then give them more  - or make more improvements - to the cabs...which incidentally, that section still needs a lot of work in helix....instead of giving them a sound they already have in a different box.

Line 6 gave us IR load capability in very first release - this is infinite possibilities for cab modeling.

[clamdiper]

Doesn't clean up enough for my use to really sound clean, but it sounds fantastic.

 

Yep but the dirty clean is very nice. :)

[willjrock]

While I disagree with pretty much everything you say, I do think they'll overhaul the cabs. I just think that that process is much more intensive and needs more work at an fundamental level. In the mean time I'm glad to have another amp thrown in the mix. Sure you could take another amp and make it sound close to something else, but a lot of players like that the starting point are closer to a specific sound. So instead of tweaking the AC30 to sound like the Fawn model, you just pick the Fawn. Instead of getting a hod rod Marshall out of a Plexi or Jcm with pedals and stuff, you just pick the 2204 mod and you're good to go.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing deeper tweaks and overhauls make their way to our Helices, but even now I'm enjoying this box a lot, and I'm glad to see the improvements in this latest update. I know they were focusing on the whole switch less function since that was very much requested. At the same time they gave us some extra stuff as well ;)

 

OOps no post. Thats your right to disagree, but everything i say comes from personal experience and is the truth, so disagreeing just makes you appear argumentative from my shoes.

 

I too, am glad to have another amp thrown in the mix, but i would have much preferred a new sound.

[rzumwalt]

I like the name Line 6 chose for the Amp! ;)

If Line 6 does a Cleaner (yet sonically complex) amp version, they can name it the "Negotiator!"

 

How about the "Mediator?"

[MusicLaw]

How about the "Mediator?"

This works too!

[HonestOpinion]

The 'Barrister', 'SpecialCounsel', 'DaMouthpiece', 'Shark', or best amp name ever, the 'AbmbulanceChaser'.  ;) 

[Rewolf48]

I prefer 'Barista' - in the mornings at least

[rzumwalt]

 

The 'Barrister', 'SpecialCounsel', 'DaMouthpiece', 'Shark', or best amp name ever, the 'AbmbulanceChaser'.  ;) 

 

 

I love this, so please forgive the puns:  The "Line 6 Expert Witness for Hire", the "Disqualified Judge", the "Class Action Specialist", the "Preempted Juror", and my favorite, the "Line 6 Judicial Misconduct."

[arislaf]

This amp is awesome. Gives a great tone by himself. Just paired it with the cab of bogner (uberv30) and it is really great!

 

https://soundcloud.com/aris-laf/lead-of-70s

[Digital_Igloo]

I love this, so please forgive the puns:  The "Line 6 Expert Witness for Hire", the "Disqualified Judge", the "Class Action Specialist", the "Preempted Juror", and my favorite, the "Line 6 Judicial Misconduct."

 

Or the "Line 6 All Model Names Must Fit Within 16 Characters Including Spaces So If You Consider 'Line 6' With Spaces Is Seven Characters You Have Nine Left With Which To Differentiate Said Model Name."

[billlorentzen]

I am stoked about the Litigator. It sounds fantastic with both my electrics. It does the Dumble mystique proud.

The Archon isn't really my cup of tea, but that's cool.

[ColonelForbin]

Yeah, I finally got to test out the 'Blues Lawyer' amp model (Litigator) last night - was also working on a new pt jr sized pedalboard, so combined the two in a very fun little ensemble and recorded - mostly me playing chords in G and letting them ring out; some bad noodly bits too.

 

I will need to spend some more quality time exploring with it, but a great 'real pedal platform' amp model for sure!

 

I've got a Morgan germanium fuzz at the front of this board that needs to be connected directly to the guitar, won't work after buffers, and only sounds good using batteries. So, I did this:

 

guitar > fuzz > pedalboard > Helix return 1 > Fremen 'Shiva clean' (with the shiva amp model replaced with the litigator model, and turned the gain down from the stock settings)

 

I had some serious fun running the wah and fuzz at the same time, and had an 'ah hah!' eye opener running the Keeley phaser after fuzz, autowah and wah, before a Keeley germanium overdrive. Stacking just the fuzz into the od sounded muddy and bad, but then turn on the phaser, and everything sounded awesome!

 

Was also way cool doing fuzz into wah; creates a cool gutteral almost vocal sound... Need to try to recreate all that using Helix fx next.

 

The rest of the sequence after the germ OD was Timmy into a Keeley analog chorus. The preset I modified has some other stuff going on, delay, reverb, eq, maybe compressor - I just switched up the amp mode and changed the patch input to return 1..

 

Anyway, if you are bored enough, here's 20 minutes or so of all that.. :)

 

Cheers!

 

https://soundcloud.com/recordingforbin/fuzz

 

[billlorentzen]

I guess im in the minority here. Its the exact same thing as the whowatt with a bit more gain and bass.. Its a sound i was already getting from the helix just fine, before the update. Heres a clip. Whoawatt with an overdrive in front of it and then the litigator without an overdrive. all pretty much at their default settings. I think i had to turn the bass the whole way down on the litigator.

 

dont take my word for it try it for yourself. There is A LOT of overlap in helix amps. The majority of them sound the same.

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26654830/dumbwhatt(2).wav

Those two sound almost identical, on my iPad. In my world, they don't sound similar.

[zooey]

Very close, you're right, hard to quantify whatever difference there is. Interesting.

[specracer986]

I guess im in the minority here. Its the exact same thing as the whowatt with a bit more gain and bass.. Its a sound i was already getting from the helix just fine, before the update. Heres a clip. Whoawatt with an overdrive in front of it and then the litigator without an overdrive. all pretty much at their default settings. I think i had to turn the bass the whole way down on the litigator.

 

dont take my word for it try it for yourself. There is A LOT of overlap in helix amps. The majority of them sound the same.

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26654830/dumbwhatt%282%29.wav

 

 

Similar but not the same, IMO. Comparing one amp with an OD and "all pretty much at their default settings", but the bass rolled off on one, isn't a real accurate comparison. I actually wasn't real excited with the litigator. I may need to spend more time with it, but it didn't do much for me when I first tried it.

[Verne-Bunsen]

Anyway, if you are bored enough, here's 20 minutes or so of all that...

 

Well, I listened to the whole thing. There were definitely some tones I really liked coming out of there, particularly whatever you had going on at 2:20, 9:00 and 15:37. I hadn't heard of the Morgan MKII, but it sounds killer, I really like how it cleans up with pick dynamics and guitar volume. But this thread is about the Litigator, and it sounds to me like they get on together very well. I haven't blown the dust off any of my pedals since I got Helix, but I'm thinking I might have to. Thanks for putting that up!

[glideman]

Well, I have the same experience with real amps. ;)

The are few original schematics in tube amps world, everything else is just modifications.

 

This is very true...  I quit monkeying around with amps as much myself anymore, but the guy that built my two custom amps kinda

chuckles when people make it out like there are so many "boutique amp designs".  Yes, there are a lot of great innovations and tweaks

to existing circuits, but the wheel has not been totally reinvented that much.

[amsdenj]

Agree with Peter here, doesn't clean up enough but feels and sounds good!

 

Try turning the master volume and bias down. This will clean it up a bit more.

[Alchemist500]

With a tube screamer and my MXR EQ, I can get nearly any tube amp to sound very similar to another amp.   When you've got 25+ digital amps in a MFX unit, there is guaranteed to be a TON of overlap ... especially in the lower to mid gain settings ... The differences in tone are very subtle in many cases ... 

 

I also think, if you had al 25 of those tube amps in a room and plugged into each one, by the end of the day you'd be thinking that a lot of them have a very similar sound and feel too.  Certainly there's a huge difference between a high gain soldano and a Fender Twin ... but when you get into that sweet spot of where a lot of rock and blues tones are rooted, the similarities in sound tend to be greater than the differences.  

[HonestOpinion]

Love the Litigator! It is particularly "user friendly". Sets up for a range of tones quickly and easily and sounds great. I was a little skeptical at first about this virtual amp but it is just a great job of amp design. Disclaimer: Mileage may vary according to personal taste, musical style and what you are playing it through.