Helix Firmware 2.80

[Verne-Bunsen]

1 hour ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

Me too... what DAW are you using? Most of them should allow you to loop the part you're recording, and stack an essentially infinite number of takes. Do a handful, then listen back and see which one you want to keep... it'll save you all the running back and forth.

I’m using Logic Pro X, and I’m sure I’m probably using it to about 1% of its potential. That sounds like a handy function, I’ll dig into it. Thanks!

[PDKTDK]

1 hour ago, Digital_Igloo said:

It's mainly three things:

• Helix Core—Mountains of code had to be replaced in Power Trio (Helix Floor, Rack, and LT) to bring them into parity with Helix Native, HX Effects, and HX Stomp. Some sections had to be coded from scratch. Although the code itself was all but finished at NAMM, I'm guessing close to a thousand bugs have been found since, some of which have taken a day or more to track down and find
• L6 LINK with Powercab Plus—Both Helix and Powercab Plus need to be updated at once, and there are major dependencies between the two
• HID Controller Conflicts—After 2.80, your Mac/PC will literally recognize Helix Floor/Rack/LT and HX Effects as a QWERTY keyboard, and driver conflicts surfaced. In fact, during the update process, your computer will ask "Huh? What is this thing?!" The update notes tell you to ignore this warning and close the dialog

So why didn't we just release the models as 2.75 and release the features as 2.80 later? Two reasons:

• Releasing and then ramping up for another release slows things down considerably
• We're not your monkeys

Settle down, Beavis.

 

 

[lefttygtr]

2 minutes ago, sadrian said:

I can’t be that hard to give people an estimate. Especially, if a release date is clearly weeks rather than days away.

Exactly, in the past 2 weeks we have heard all the great things about 2.8. How the amps, drives and other features sound and work. Yes it got people like myself excited to hear and see videos of the features being used. It seemed as though any day it would hit, then nothing. So at this point hearing what some of the issues are we may get lucky with an end of summer release which is a bummer but ok it is what it is.

[rd2rk]

46 minutes ago, sadrian said:

I’m a business communications consultant with 25 years of experience

 

My experience in dealing with people in your line of work is that your profession is herding sheep. 

 

30 minutes ago, sadrian said:

People get mad when you don’t manage their expectations! 

 

Sheep LIKE to be managed. Many of us do not see ourselves as sheep.

 

10 minutes ago, sadrian said:

But I do know a thing or two about community management and communications. 

 

Have you ever watched a sheep dog herd sheep? They do it by barking and nipping at their heels.

I'm sure that's the last thing your clients want to hear.

 

Hope you're not offended, I personally think that lamb is one of the tastiest red meats.

 

Here's another perspective.

 

Have you ever been part of a team whose team leader excels at criticism, cracking the whip, and kowtowing to the suits in the boardroom?

Having read many of DI's posts, both here and on TGP, I know that he is both helpful (with technical issues), and as informative as someone in his position can be.

I also know that if you kick him, he kicks back!

Corporate types and "entitled" consumers often seem to have the attitude that they can say anything they want to "the help" (aka monkeys). 

They get really ticked when the monkey bites back!

 

I give kudos to DI for standing up for his team!

[rd2rk]

7 hours ago, zolko60 said:

guess L6 fanboys would justify and defence anything L6 does and abadon to do. 

 

Whenever someone calls me a fanboi my chest swells with pride, since I know that I've just irritated someone who NEEDS and DESERVES to be irritated, several times a day!

"Make someone happy! Make just one someone happy! And you will be happy too!"

 

Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?

[phil_m]

33 minutes ago, lefttygtr said:

Exactly, in the past 2 weeks we have heard all the great things about 2.8. How the amps, drives and other features sound and work. Yes it got people like myself excited to hear and see videos of the features being used. It seemed as though any day it would hit, then nothing. So at this point hearing what some of the issues are we may get lucky with an end of summer release which is a bummer but ok it is what it is.

 

As far as how the new models sound, describing those in detail is technically violating our NDAs. That's why I've tried descriptions I've given have been very vague. They don't want beta testers doing A/B comparisons between a new model and the real thing before it's released, because, even though it's unlikely, there's always a chance something could change with that model. Plus, I think they're trying to maintain some element of suspense, in away.

 

But, anyway, I really don't think there's any reason to be nearly this pessimistic (end of summer, etc.)... I have no reason to believe there's going to be a substantial delay.

[cruisinon2]

53 minutes ago, Verne-Bunsen said:

I’m using Logic Pro X, and I’m sure I’m probably using it to about 1% of its potential. That sounds like a handy function, I’ll dig into it. Thanks!

 

I haven't used Logic, but it's little brother, Garageband, does it... I'd be very surprised if Logic doesn't have that option.

[soundog]

13 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

I haven't used Logic, but it's little brother, Garageband, does it... I'd be very surprised if Logic doesn't have that option.

 

Logic does it nicely. After the looped recording, you can select the sections you like from the "comps" and merged them to a single "best takes" file.

[Kilrahi]

1 hour ago, phil_m said:

 

As far as how the new models sound, describing those in detail is technically violating our NDAs. 

.

 

That seems odd. Hopefully they sound like the real deal. We should already know how they sound.

[spikey]

However the new models sound, it more or less will sound how we all hear its sound, differently for each of us (in a good or bad way). 

Violation of an NDA over the suggestive tones of a new amp not released "specifically" may be breaking NDA rules as Phil states,  no matter how anal that is to some of us. Lawyerese usually doesnt account for common sense involvement, and getting hung out to dry by breaking an NDA agreement is a biotch I'm told.

[datacommando]

On 6/1/2019 at 8:16 AM, manix1979 said:

I want to ask digitaligloo how far the firmware allready is developed. We are all waiting like tigers for their meat. Can you please give the community a small info if it‘s in plan for release soon or will it be delayed?

21 days left and spring is over.

 

Greetings

 

Well, it seems that since Digital_Igloo has finally made a comment about the v2.8 situation it now looks like the “tiger waiting for the meat” must have fallen asleep!

 

Grrr!

 

After almost a month of complaining - surprisingly quiet now.

[Kilrahi]

28 minutes ago, spikey said:

However the new models sound, it more or less will sound how we all hear its sound, differently for each of us (in a good or bad way). 

Violation of an NDA over the suggestive tones of a new amp not released "specifically" may be breaking NDA rules as Phil states,  no matter how anal that is to some of us. Lawyerese usually doesnt account for common sense involvement, and getting hung out to dry by breaking an NDA agreement is a biotch I'm told.

 

Yeah, I get it. My real job is a commercial lender. The stupid legal agreements I've seen would cause the average person to lollipop themselves stupid. 

[MikeBoth]

Most of the time, in my experience, it takes longer to develop and test anything that involves software than people predicted, and even working out 'how much longer' then further delays release of said software. I see a bunch of people posting comments here that are the same as clients I've had in the past, and who don't fully grasp the complexities of software development and release (and that's fine, as that's not their area of expertise). You gotta just relax, let the pro's do their job, and think about something else for a while.

 

Offering a different point of view - I have a preamp made by another company, and this company has been promising that a much-needed firmware upgrade would be released 'soon', 'in a couple of weeks' etc, for getting towards 18 months. This firmware is not even adding many new features, but rather addresses some significant issues (eg needing to double-tap a footswitch to enter tuning mode rather than having a single long press; this has already meant that this footswitch has broken on my device, and the same company can't or won't provide information on how to repair it). Line 6, by comparison, are doing bloody well, and it's not like your Helix is useless meanwhile; we're waiting for features that weren't present when we made the decision to buy, after which anything extra is a huge bonus and reflects very well on Line 6. There are many people using their Helix pretty happy as it stands now, me being one of them.

[Kilrahi]

17 hours ago, zolko60 said:

I guess L6 fanboys would justify and defence anything L6 does and abadon to do. 

 

Yes. Something has changed! The spring on the northern hemisphere has ended so that thread looks ridicolous not updated.

 

Considering how much the manual bugs you I guess I can understand that that ONE thread would drive you nuts, but there's plenty of other threads on here that make it clear it ain't happening in Spring. Hell, the fact it's past Spring makes it clear. 

 

Beyond that, what exactly are you proposing we, the fans, do? No matter how you toss it, dice it, or slice it, it's completely out of my hands.  I'm WAY stoked to get the update, and I would have loved for it to come out on time, but because I think that:

 

A. Line 6's estimate of Spring 2019 was their best good faith estimate at the time. 

B. They're probably a bit disappointed themselves they missed it.

C. They REALLY were trying . . .

 

Because of ALL those things I named above, I just don't get the point in dog piling on them. What does pissing all over them accomplish? Like seriously, what does it do? Especially when there are plenty of other people bitching at them, there's no reason I need to pick up a torch. I am just going to sit back and continue to play my guitar. 

 

Maybe I'll write a song about it called, "Patience and Pitchforks."

 

11 hours ago, sadrian said:

From a professional perspective, I think you should be transparent at this point, when or when not people can expect the release. At NAMM, you made a big deal out of your community stats. This is a time, to manage this community. To manage people and foremost their expectations. Please, give everyone here a realistic estimate.

 

 

I'm not questioning your credentials, and I'm sure you're solid at your job, but I've been nothing but impressed by Line 6's community interaction.  The ONLY site that the Helix L6 staff has kind of been radio silence on is this one - and even that's stepped up lately. 

 

They're constantly interacting and giving updates that it's SOON . . . and that if they were any more specific it would be an out and out lie because what happens is each day they go in hoping it MIGHT be it - and then a new bug rears its head. 

 

They do have a bit of an edge to their responses if you try to pick a fight - that's part of their feel and has been for quite some time. I like it. It's fun. Some won't, but it's still a legitimate style.

 

They're kind of like Wendy's where if you ask them over Twitter for a free side of fries they tell you to go *?!$@! yourself for free instead. Meanwhile McDonalds pretends like free fries are a perfectly reasonable request and they wish they could do it (you know, the standard BS that most companies give rather than tell it like it is). 

[AgingOrange]

4 hours ago, Kilrahi said:

Because of ALL those things I named above, I just don't get the point in dog piling on them. What does pissing all over them accomplish? Like seriously, what does it do? Especially when there are plenty of other people bitching at them, there's no reason I need to pick up a torch. I am just going to sit back and continue to play my guitar. 

 

 

Back in the day before electronic communication was the norm (yes, I'm that old) people wouldn't think of being that obnoxious to someone you have a relationship with. Sure, be that way when meeting someone face to face, see how far that will get you.

 

Not just that, though, that feeling of entitlement. Where the heck does that come from?

[datacommando]

55 minutes ago, AgingOrange said:

 

Not just that, though, that feeling of entitlement. Where the heck does that come from?

 

 

Exactly! This is the thing that irks me. You buy a piece of gear to perform a task, it’s a tool to do a job, and I bought my Helix as a solution for what I needed at that time - not any future additions, although, yes they are a bonus. The initial firmware updates were fixes, stability improvements and optimisations, in fact, in one early version a “new feature” was the addition of support for Windows 10! Since then Line 6 have gone ahead and continued to improve functionality and add new amps and FX at not cost to the owner, yes FREE - regard it as a gift, enjoy gratis!

 

Now we seem to have this sense of entitlement - I bought your product so keep giving me gifts forever, for which I will be eternally ungrateful and continue to pi$$ and moan that it is still not good enough - gimme, gimme, gimme! Well, I for one would not be surprised to find that when Helix Family Firmware v.3.0 rolls around, Line 6 decide that they have invested so much, for so long for the ungrateful that the time has come for a change of policy. Yes, if you want it - you pay for it! 

 

All you moaners ready for that? How about $300 to $500 for the upgrade? After all, look at what you are getting.

 

Will they be happy then?

 

Nuff said - preaching done!

[themetallikid]

2 hours ago, datacommando said:

 

Exactly! This is the thing that irks me. You buy a piece of gear to perform a task, it’s a tool to do a job, and I bought my Helix as a solution for what I needed at that time - not any future additions, although, yes they are a bonus. The initial firmware updates were fixes, stability improvements and optimisations, in fact, in one early version a “new feature” was the addition of support for Windows 10! Since then Line 6 have gone ahead and continued to improve functionality and add new amps and FX at not cost to the owner, yes FREE - regard it as a gift, enjoy gratis!

 

Now we seem to have this sense of entitlement - I bought your product so keep giving me gifts forever, for which I will be eternally ungrateful and continue to pi$$ and moan that it is still not good enough - gimme, gimme, gimme! Well, I for one would not be surprised to find that when Helix Family Firmware v.3.0 rolls around, Line 6 decide that they have invested so much, for so long for the ungrateful that the time has come for a change of policy. Yes, if you want it - you pay for it! 

 

All you moaners ready for that? How about $300 to $500 for the upgrade? After all, look at what you are getting.

 

Will they be happy then?

 

Nuff said - preaching done!

 I don't know how you did that...purchase something and be happy with it for what it is

 

 

 I personally bought the Helix almost 2 years ago for a specific amp they have not included yet and a wah pedal they have not included yet.....they owe it to me.  

 

 

OMG was that hard to actually type out, lmfao

[manix1979]

2 hours ago, datacommando said:

 

Exactly! This is the thing that irks me. You buy a piece of gear to perform a task, it’s a tool to do a job, and I bought my Helix as a solution for what I needed at that time - not any future additions, although, yes they are a bonus. The initial firmware updates were fixes, stability improvements and optimisations, in fact, in one early version a “new feature” was the addition of support for Windows 10! Since then Line 6 have gone ahead and continued to improve functionality and add new amps and FX at not cost to the owner, yes FREE - regard it as a gift, enjoy gratis!

 

Now we seem to have this sense of entitlement - I bought your product so keep giving me gifts forever, for which I will be eternally ungrateful and continue to pi$$ and moan that it is still not good enough - gimme, gimme, gimme! Well, I for one would not be surprised to find that when Helix Family Firmware v.3.0 rolls around, Line 6 decide that they have invested so much, for so long for the ungrateful that the time has come for a change of policy. Yes, if you want it - you pay for it! 

 

All you moaners ready for that? How about $300 to $500 for the upgrade? After all, look at what you are getting.

 

Will they be happy then?

 

Nuff said - preaching done!

 

You are way too far off the topic. We all are glad to get updates and for sure more  glad that it‘s still free. No doubt. 

No one talked about this. Just changing the COMMUNICATION politics was a „request“ nothing more or less.

We just want to know how the development is going. We are interested in the work!! For god’s sake is it not possible to give us just this info. 

IF the update (in future) should be paid it‘s ok but with this politics for sure a no go. ;-)

Never ever think L6 is bad or whatever.

The have done a very good job over the years and still do!!!! The products are nearly perfect! The customer service is perfect.

 

What‘s the problem then?

Just the damn info what we are expecting to read. 

Keep cool and think again what we are talking and what you understood maybe wrong. ;-) 

 

[PierM]

 

20 minutes ago, themetallikid said:

 I don't know how you did that...purchase something and be happy with it for what it is

 

Im sure he is waiting and chasing that update as everyone else over here. He is just playing the watchdog role because he likes, but yeah, he’s not stuck at Firmware 1.0. ;)

 

Most of the time, dramas are coming from these guys, not really from people just being excited for a new firmware and legitimately asking a estimation for a release.

[phil_m]

36 minutes ago, manix1979 said:

You are way too far off the topic. We all are glad to get updates and for sure more  glad that it‘s still free. No doubt. 

No one talked about this. Just changing the COMMUNICATION politics was a „request“ nothing more or less.

We just want to know how the development is going. We are interested in the work!! For god’s sake is it not possible to give us just this info. 

IF the update (in future) should be paid it‘s ok but with this politics for sure a no go. ;-)

 

 

 I think this dream needs to die... Line 6 simply isn’t going to give weekly updates on the progress of software development. Honestly, no company, other than perhaps a small mom and pop operation, is going to do that sort thing. I’m a beta tester and under NDA with them, and I don’t get these sorts of updates. I don’t expect them, either. I just know they’re working on it, and it will be ready when it’s ready.

[manix1979]

44 minutes ago, phil_m said:

 

 I think this dream needs to die... Line 6 simply isn’t going to give weekly updates on the progress of software development. Honestly, no company, other than perhaps a small mom and pop operation, is going to do that sort thing. I’m a beta tester and under NDA with them, and I don’t get these sorts of updates. I don’t expect them, either. I just know they’re working on it, and it will be ready when it’s ready.

 

Oh man... well then finally some intelligent and sadly true words as it seems :-( 

 

Please L6 if possible don‘t tease us next time not that long. If it gets not ready in the time period, could you then inform the users. Thank you! :-) 

[zolko60]

8 hours ago, Kilrahi said:

Considering how much the manual bugs you I guess I can understand that that ONE thread would drive you nuts, but there's plenty of other threads on here that make it clear it ain't happening in Spring. Hell, the fact it's past Spring makes it clear. 

The manual is irrelevant, but I stll believe keeping the obsolete manual written in 2016 after 2.80 firmware update which is changing Helix quite seriously would be strange. BTW almost all of published documents are obsolete, the Knowledge Base is hardly updated. If you want to capture some L6 leaks the L6 website is the last place to search. TGP and facebook are the media. Is it driving me nuts? I don't think so. It is just the kind of practice I don't expect from the company treating their customers seriously.
 

8 hours ago, Kilrahi said:

Beyond that, what exactly are you proposing we, the fans, do? No matter how you toss it, dice it, or slice it, it's completely out of my hands.  

To criticize the communication politics is nothing wrong. L6 has just a chance to listen and fanboys have chance to improve their justification and defence methods. :D

 

8 hours ago, Kilrahi said:

I'm WAY stoked to get the update, and I would have loved for it to come out on time, but because I think that:

 

A. Line 6's estimate of Spring 2019 was their best good faith estimate at the time. 

B. They're probably a bit disappointed themselves they missed it.

C. They REALLY were trying . . .
 

Because of ALL those things I named above, I just don't get the point in dog piling on them. What does pissing all over them accomplish? Like seriously, what does it do? Especially when there are plenty of other people bitching at them, there's no reason I need to pick up a torch. I am just going to sit back and continue to play my guitar. 

A. OK. So keeping that info sticked to the first page of this forum is justified when their good faith failed? BTW the 2.80 release candidate compilation was successfull and in time. After having RC complied and sent to testers, estimations could be made more responsibly. What about  "Avialiable 2019"?
B. If L6 is dissapointed so maybe by using empathy it is reasonable to conclude some of the customers could be dissapionted too? And then undertake some PR action?
C I can appreciate that. I can not appreciate the lack of proper communication. No drama involved. If I meet some L6 guy I can still shake his/her hand. :)

I haven't seen anyone pissing on L6. All I see is questions of either missinformed or disappointed customers and the fanboys dog piling on them.

 

44 minutes ago, phil_m said:

I don’t expect them, either. I just know they’re working on it, and it will be ready when it’s ready.

 OK. i buy it! Please (smbdy in charge) consider editing "Helix Firmware 2.80 (Available SPRING 2019)" topic to "Helix Firmware 2.80 (Avialable when it's ready)" or just to "Helix Firmware 2.80"

[Verne-Bunsen]

Meanwhile, back at Line 6 HQ.......

 

[bsd512]

2 hours ago, manix1979 said:

Just changing the COMMUNICATION politics was a „request“ nothing more or less.

We just want to know how the development is going. We are interested in the work!! For god’s sake is it not possible to give us just this info. 

I think it's been pretty darn clear. They said in January that they were shooting for spring thereabouts. Development is going great. Right now just tying up loose ends. Release is imminent.

 

I seriously doubt you're going to get more than that. And honestly, that's plenty and includes everything I need to know.

 

Heck, if I'm honest, when DI said they were shooting for spring, I was actually hoping for March. :-)

 

Regardless, L6 communication has been clear. And appreciated.

[PDKTDK]

1 hour ago, phil_m said:

 

 I think this dream needs to die... Line 6 simply isn’t going to give weekly updates on the progress of software development. Honestly, no company, other than perhaps a small mom and pop operation, is going to do that sort thing. I’m a beta tester and under NDA with them, and I don’t get these sorts of updates. I don’t expect them, either. I just know they’re working on it, and it will be ready when it’s ready.

 

 

 

[litesnsirens]

Maybe in the future Line 6 should just tell us nothing about impending firmware updates, then there’s no criticism on release dates or lack of communication.  How can you complain about lack of communication regarding an update that you don’t even know exists.  Then one day it just drops and everyone is super happy with the new features. During the whole development process Line 6 was able to happily work on it with no distractions or pressures from customers.  I suppose potentially people might still cry about whether or not there will even be an update and where is the info on that, but Roland uses that model and everyone just knows it’s pointless to ask because they are famous for saying nothing.  Line 6 could eventually develop that reputation.

 

Further, I’m extremely grateful that the updates are free, but I would pay a reasonable amount for updates, after all there are costs associated with the development of new models and functionality so it’s not unreasonable.  You can argue that other companies give free updates so Line 6 can’t charge but there are companies that don’t update at all.   It’s just mind-blowing to me that people get out of sorts over a delayed release of a free upgrade.

 

Having said all that, would I personally prefer that Line 6 adopt a zero communication policy and start charging for updates?  Of course not but it might be better than the cringe I feel when I read some of the posts on here.  I could just opt out of coming to the forums but I learn a lot here and I’m as curious as anyone else about various ongoings.  I just think it’s flat out wrong to criticize (regardless of how tactful or repsectful you THINK you are being) the people who are working their butts off to bring you a free update.  Whether you are criticizing the fact that the update is late or whether you want to smuggle in your complaint about it being late buy discussing the lack of communication.

[rd2rk]

1 hour ago, zolko60 said:

I stll believe keeping the obsolete manual written in 2016 after 2.80 firmware update which is changing Helix quite seriously would be strange. BTW almost all of published documents are obsolete, the Knowledge Base is hardly updated.

 

This I agree with! Back in my SW development days, manuals were hard-copy, and constant updates were both impractical and not economical. With the advent of PDF manuals, this should no longer be as big an issue. Still, with their admittedly small staff, I'd rather see them working on updates to the product than the documentation. They've promised a major re-vamp to the documentation with 3.0, so I'm hopeful!

 

1 hour ago, zolko60 said:

TGP and facebook are the media.

 

True dat!

 

1 hour ago, zolko60 said:

I haven't seen anyone pissing on L6.

 

Are we reading the same thread?

[Digital_Igloo]

22 hours ago, rd2rk said:

Having read many of DI's posts, both here and on TGP, I know that he is both helpful (with technical issues), and as informative as someone in his position can be.

I also know that if you kick him, he kicks back!

Corporate types and "entitled" consumers often seem to have the attitude that they can say anything they want to "the help" (aka monkeys). 

They get really ticked when the monkey bites back!

 

I give kudos to DI for standing up for his team!

If one's new to our schtick, is sensitive, and skews toward the never-worked-in-the-service-industry-the-customer-is-always-right-let-me-speak-to-a-manager-haircut type, I'll freely admit our transparency can be jarring. In truth, I've explained the hows and whys of announcing release dates dozens of times. (Spoiler alert: the companies who announce release dates are sitting on finished product for weeks or months to align with marketing deliverables. We don't know if 2.80's done until literally 10 minutes before it's released.) Typing the same thing every week is boring, and chasing down dissenters across 20 different websites/forums is even more boring, so I come up with dumber ways to convey the same message.

 

Today, let's try screenplay form:

 

Karen: Line 6's PR department doesn't communicate with us!

Digital Igloo: Line 6 has no PR department. A few employees post because they want to.

Karen: You're being rude for someone in Line 6's PR department!

Digital Igloo: Line 6 has no PR department. A few employees post because they want to.

Karen: Ha! That's JUST what someone from Line 6's PR department would say!

Digital Igloo: <sigh...> Line 6 has no PR department. A few employees post because they want to.

Bye —— off to TGP and the Facebook groups.

 

20 minutes later...

 

Karen: Line 6's PR department doesn't communicate with us!

 

[rzumwalt]

19 hours ago, spikey said:

[...] Lawyerese usually doesnt account for common sense [...]

 

They can’t account for something that was beaten out of them over three years of law school and careers trying to satisfy clients with unreasonable expectations. 

[Digital_Igloo]

2 hours ago, zolko60 said:

I stll believe keeping the obsolete manual written in 2016 after 2.80 firmware update which is changing Helix quite seriously would be strange.

I don't disagree, and I could probably insist to have the manual updated for every sub-rev, but believe it or not, the cost of translating them means we'd have fewer engineers to develop the updates themselves. Yamaha does everything by the book, and legally, we can't sell or distribute products to certain parts of the world without providing a manual in that language. In some cases, translation costs more than the revenue we get from selling to those speaking that language!

 

It's not 100% up to me, but I'd much rather have more models and features than constant up-to-date documentation. You'd think they'd be mutually exclusive, but sadly, they're not. Translating a manual into all the languages we're required to support can cost many tens of thousands of dollars. Doing that three times a year for a dozen SKUs is impossibly expensive. "But I want it all!" Okay, but we'll have to charge more for the product.

 

The same International laws don't apply to software, however, which is why you'll notice the embedded PDF manual for HX Edit and Helix Native gets updated every single rev.

 

Also, I have been working on an exhaustive Knowledge Base manual for the new 2.80 stuff. We're considering pushing it live once it's done, even if 2.80 isn't quite ready. If people actually read it, we'll probably keep doing that for every point release. It's a lot easier than copying/pasting release notes onto a dozen forums (and then having to fix any mistakes in every one)...

[craiganderton]

A few random thoughts...

• Because of previous updates, the Helix does more than it did originally. New stuff is welcome, but not essential to my enjoying what the Helix already does.
• Microsoft and Apple are huge companies with huge budgets, yet their updates are often late (like the Windows "October" update that came out in March), and require subsequent fixes (when I updated to Mojave, it bricked my MacBook Pro and Apple had to walk me through re-installing the OS from scratch). I don't expect Line 6 to pull off something that companies with hundreds of billions of dollars can't pull off.
• What Line 6 owes us is what they promised when they introduced the Helix. They designed it to allow for updates, and updates have happened. I'm somewhat surprised Helix is still getting major updates; usually at this point in a product's life cycle, the updates are fixes and minor tweaks.
• All software companies I've worked with are overly optimistic about when software will be completed, even when they try to estimate conservatively. Any change or fix has a ripple effect.

Ultimately, gear is relatively unimportant. All that matters is the emotional impact of our music, which has little to do with gear.

 

[phil_m]

30 minutes ago, Digital_Igloo said:

If one's new to our schtick, is sensitive, and skews toward the never-worked-in-the-service-industry-the-customer-is-always-right-let-me-speak-to-a-manager-haircut type, I'll freely admit our transparency can be jarring. In truth, I've explained the hows and whys of announcing release dates dozens of times. (Spoiler alert: the companies who announce release dates are sitting on finished product for weeks or months to align with marketing deliverables. We don't know if 2.80's done until literally 10 minutes before it's released.) Typing the same thing every week is boring, and chasing down dissenters across 20 different websites/forums is even more boring, so I come up with dumber ways to convey the same message.

 

Today, let's try screenplay form:

 

Karen: Line 6's PR department doesn't communicate with us!

Digital Igloo: Line 6 has no PR department. A few employees post because they want to.

Karen: You're being rude for someone in Line 6's PR department!

Digital Igloo: Line 6 has no PR department. A few employees post because they want to.

Karen: Ha! That's JUST what someone from Line 6's PR department would say!

Digital Igloo: <sigh...> Line 6 has no PR department. A few employees post because they want to.

Bye —— off to TGP and the Facebook groups.

 

20 minutes later...

 

Karen: Line 6's PR department doesn't communicate with us!

 

 

Lol... Karen... 

 

[sveje77]

2 hours ago, Digital_Igloo said:

Also, I have been working on an exhaustive Knowledge Base manual for the new 2.80 stuff. We're considering pushing it live once it's done, even if 2.80 isn't quite ready. 

 

Sooo... the Knowledge Base article for 2.80 isn‘t ready to be released yet, but still might be released before the 2.80 update because that is even less ready than the article. Did I understand that correctly? 

 

Not meaning to complain. I just received my HX Stomp about a week ago and still have to discover many features and sounds of the 2.71 firmware. It really is a great little device. So far the SLO lead channel is my favourite amp model. Pure fu**ing metal! 

[craiganderton]

28 minutes ago, sveje77 said:

 

Sooo... the Knowledge Base article for 2.80 isn‘t ready to be released yet, but still might be released before the 2.80 update because that is even less ready than the article. Did I understand that correctly? 

 

I think so, because presumably, the feature set for the software is frozen. Therefore the Knowledge Base article can be finished because it describes the feature set, yet testing can still be ongoing prior to the software release.

[PiFromBRC]

 

On 6/28/2019 at 9:53 AM, sadrian said:

To @phil_m @Digital_Igloo and all officials and insiders in here:

No, you’re not anyones monkeys. At least I hope so. But as of now, you have a community full of monkeys going crazy – and you are the zookeepers.

 

I’m a business communications consultant with 25 years of experience and it really hurts me to see, how you constantly incite this mob but do nothing to calm it down again. The tone in here and over at TGP gets more aggressive, slightly but steady. People are on the edge, constantly checking the forums, your site, the updater. They are waiting for the update to be released every second, especially since one of you officially wrote about an RC by the end of last week. Three days ago, the big silence was broken and many small details have been leaked. But no word about the time of release.

 

From a professional perspective, I think you should be transparent at this point, when or when not people can expect the release. At NAMM, you made a big deal out of your community stats. This is a time, to manage this community. To manage people and foremost their expectations. Please, give everyone here a realistic estimate.

 

Thank you.

 

They're the zoo keepers?  WITH MUSICIANS????  ON AN INTERNET FORUM????  Yeah, I would rather be a zoo keeper at a zoo suffering a rabies outbreak.  After an earthquake.

Dude, I'm a hoyty toyty suit guy with 25 years of blah blah as well.  Seriously.  Stress through the roof, regular calls around the world and other life-sucking activities.  My first instinct when I read your post was to point out some punctual and grammatical errors.  But then I remembered something:  I'm also a musician.  This is a forum on the interwebs.  You're trying to spank people on an internet forum.

This isn't Bank of America; it's Line 6.  It's a little, teeny-tiny island seemingly operating with a degree of autonomy within the world of Yamaha.

 

You're asking them to give a realistic estimate on a release date when the previous estimates proved wrong.  There is no transparency because the issues are nebulous.  DI stated that he was hoping to have it out over the weekend of the missed estimated release.  Clearly something occurred.  It's code.  This is not unusual.

Oh, and ever time I read the, "kindly provide a solution no later than (whatever)..., <hardbreak> Thank you"-communications demanding resolution on an unknown solution, I automatically know that relationship is strained by an unrealistic expectation and it becomes low man on my priority list.  Just sayin' is all.

[Kilrahi]

Also, if anyone missed it, the above is what TRUE transparency looks like. That is most definitely not how a Walmart or Sony would answer. It'd sound something like:

 

"Good idea on updating the manual! At Sony we are always striving to improve. Keep sending your suggestions our way. We are ALWAYS listening."

 

It is polite, but tells you literally nothing of importance.

[spikey]

 

 

Quote

D.I. says: Also, I have been working on an exhaustive Knowledge Base manual for the new 2.80 stuff.

 

Much appreciated.

[spikey]

5 hours ago, rzumwalt said:

 

They can’t account for something that was beaten out of them over three years of law school and careers trying to satisfy clients with unreasonable expectations. 

 

That's correct only if you really believe they (and their instructors) were honest in the 1st place. I have 9 fingers left after counting the total. 

[cruisinon2]

Salúd folks! It took a while, but this has been some of the best whining and sniveling to date! I'm giddy with anticipation for the Why?/I/Me/Gimme-Gimme Festival 3.0... lmfao.

 

Next time around maybe take it up a notch...demand $50 payments for pain and suffering if they're "late" with the firmware again.... anybody got Geraldo's number? This is Pulitzer $hit we've got here...;)

[Kevin-M]

Based on my admittedly limited understanding of this update, I’m going to even more patiently wait for 2.81. :-)  I say this half jokingly, but it does appear that it’s not a minor update given what’s been reported as a convergence (?) of code among the platforms. I bought my Stomp based on its existing feature set, and it’s holding up quite well to date.