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Best method of setting patches levels to the same volume??

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My patches are all over the place in volume.   I want to even them out without changing the sound of the patch.   What is the best method?

Thanks

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You'd have plenty of room to do that by just adjusting the output block level.

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Trial and error but that is the control

I also put a 0-6db sweep on the expression pedal for solo boosting (which is quite a lot but you don't need to go all the way and it good to have if you need it)

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I set the Helix black knob master volume all the way up. XLR set to line level. Trim on my Mackie mixer to zero and fader at unity.

Then I adjust the Helix amp model channel volume so that the meters on the Mackie are at the top of the green, occasional yellow - never red.

 

Setting the amp channel volume doesn't effect the tone of the amp. And the meters on my mixer are just a starting point. The perceived listening volume can vary from what the meters are showing. Especially when switching between clean and distorted amp models.

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When dialing in tones I always have a rather high resolution db-led-Display connected to the phones-output. Make sure your phones level knob is always the same. Search for "American Audio DB meter" for example. Having something like this integrated in Helix, easily accessible like e.g the tuner Screen... would be a good Feature.

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My patches are all over the place in volume. I want to even them out without changing the sound of the patch. What is the best method?

Thanks

Volume will forever affect the sound of your patches. Nothing can be done about the way we perceive sound. You have to tweak at the volume you intend a given patch to be used, A/B them and balance where necessary, and repeat...

 

Meters lie...your ears are the best tool you've got.

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I try to get my presets as similar in level as possible when I am programming them using the "Ch Vol" parameter on the amp and the "Level" parameter on the output block to tweak the overall volume. I set my expression pedal to global and adjust the level on the fly as needed during performances.

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Volume will forever affect the sound of your patches. Nothing can be done about the way we perceive sound. You have to tweak at the volume you intend a given patch to be used, A/B them and balance where necessary, and repeat...

Meters lie...your ears are the best tool you've got.

I have threatened to run over the dbspl meter at church if I see the sound guys using it. If it sounds too loud, turn it down.

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Best way?

fire up an FRFR at gig volume.

Use a dB meter.

Even better? Play through the system and have the sound guy give you feedback from patch to patch.

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I play each of my patches along with the same song coming out of my studio monitors as loud as I can. Then only slight tweaks are necessary at rehearsal.

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Here is what I do...

 

When playing with the band I make note of or adjust a clean sound til it's perfect, then distorted rhythm sound, then clean lead and then a dirty lead.

 

I will then play these later thru a meter and mark the peaks for each category.

 

When I make a new sound I will use the peaks in each category marked above as a starting point for each sound, they won't always be perfect but at least they are usually close.

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I'm sure you already know but just in case....

 

You don't want all your patches the same volume, you want them to be placed properly in the mix of what you are doing.

 

It seems my clean patches need to be just a bit louder than the dirty ones to cut through, and of course lead boosts will be louder than the rhythm patches.

 

That's why I categorize and adjust the peaks accordingly.

 

Is this dead horse properly beaten?

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I've had GREAT results using the Orban loudness meter (free download). As many others have stated, usually meters aren't terribly reliable as loudness, EQ, etc. will affect perceived loudness but I equalized all my patches using the Orban loudness meter, and they were all VERY close at my next gig. I generally just use the amp model's channel volume to make the adjustment. It's the best results I've ever had in my 30+ years of playing. 

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I've had GREAT results using the Orban loudness meter (free download). As many others have stated, usually meters aren't terribly reliable as loudness, EQ, etc. will affect perceived loudness but I equalized all my patches using the Orban loudness meter, and they were all VERY close at my next gig. I generally just use the amp model's channel volume to make the adjustment. It's the best results I've ever had in my 30+ years of playing. 

 

 

says doesn't support yosemite or higher

 

http://www.orban.com/meter

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I'm sure you already know but just in case....

 

You don't want all your patches the same volume, you want them to be placed properly in the mix of what you are doing.

 

It seems my clean patches need to be just a bit louder than the dirty ones to cut through, and of course lead boosts will be louder than the rhythm patches.

 

That's why I categorize and adjust the peaks accordingly.

 

Is this dead horse properly beaten?

 

 

+1!  

 

Your patch levels need to be set to suit the song - not the same for all songs - or else you'll be too quiet on the loud songs, and too loud on the quiet songs.  And OK on the medium ones.  Unless of course your band has zero dynamic range in which case set them all the same ;)

 

This was perhaps the main reason that I moved away from traditional pedals to Helix - so that I could have the exact same amp sound and effects at a different volume level for a different song!  The best way to set levels (if you have the facility) is to make a good live multitrack recording of your band with a dry guitar signal (USB7 or a DI box maybe) and then reamp your recorded guitar signal back through Helix and adjust as needed.

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\\\\\\  HELIX PROBLEM  \\\\

 

hello , i just cannot find how to make a new topic, but here is my problem :

When i am for example in preset 1A , but i want to change to preset 1B or C or D or whatever preset , when i push from 1A to 1B, the signal stops for a bit second and continues with the sound of the next preset, this is too annoying cuz if m playing a song that requires exact change without pause the sound for a second , this is so embarrassing , it doesnt happened with, hd 500x or pod x3 live, i think there are many things that Line 6 should repair more than fancy colours on the screen... my humble opinion, but , anyone has the same problem ? how to solve this :( ? THANK YOU

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Use snapshots works for me no delay in switching at all, there's plenty of you tube stuff on them

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\\\\\\  HELIX PROBLEM /////

how to solve this :( ? THANK YOU

Snapshots are the solution to your problem - see pages 34 to 39 of the owners manual for full explanation.

 

http://line6.com/data/6/0a06439c975d5787c3e351aa0/application/pdf/Helix%202.0%20Owners%20Manual%20-%20Rev%20D%20-%20English%20.pdf#page34

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FYI, you can also turn individual blocks on and off with footswitches, multiple blocks at once too. But snapshots give you the most flexibility and control.

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i tried with snap shot already but , if im not wrong, in the snapshot if you select another amp, lets supose in the snapshot 1 you got jazz riviet, and go to Snapshot 2 and change mandarin 80 amp, it changes in all snapshots (?) :/, i prefer the oldskool style on line 6 pedalboards, that just change preset to another was very comfortably , but now its little bit complicated!

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FYI, you can also turn individual blocks on and off with footswitches, multiple blocks at once too. But snapshots give you the most flexibility and control.

i will try ! the thing its that i use completely different mods, dlys, and amps from one preset to other , thank you !

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i tried with snap shot already but , if im not wrong, in the snapshot if you select another amp, lets supose in the snapshot 1 you got jazz riviet, and go to Snapshot 2 and change mandarin 80 amp, it changes in all snapshots (?) :/, i prefer the oldskool style on line 6 pedalboards, that just change preset to another was very comfortably , but now its little bit complicated!

 

Helix is capable of doing what you want. You're new to it, and don't know how to set it up to get what you want. I play in a cover band. Here's how I set things up, that will probably work for you.

Each song gets it's own preset. Each preset will hold all of the effects blocks that that song requires. Possibly even two amps

I set up a different snapshot for each part of the song that needs a different tone. All of the changed parameters of the effects, need to be saved specifically to that snapshot. Look up a youtube video that will tell you how to do that.

So I'll have a snapshot for an intro that will have different effect settings than the snapshot for the verses, which will have different effect settings than the snapshot for the solo. Any of the snapshots can turn on a second amp and turn off the first amp, but again that needs to be saved specifically to the snapshot. There is no delay or gap in sound when switching from snapshot to snapshot.

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I've had GREAT results using the Orban loudness meter (free download). As many others have stated, usually meters aren't terribly reliable as loudness, EQ, etc. will affect perceived loudness but I equalized all my patches using the Orban loudness meter, and they were all VERY close at my next gig. I generally just use the amp model's channel volume to make the adjustment. It's the best results I've ever had in my 30+ years of playing. 

Just set this up on my Windows laptop. Seems to work great!

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This Orban meter looks awesome.

 

Quick question:-

 

=> which of its meters is the best one to use for matching preset levels  ?

 

Ben

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I would say it depends on what you're doing. If you're sending your signal directly to a mixer and the sound guy will then mix for the song, your best bet is to set your levels with a meter so the mixer has consistent levels that the sound guy doesn't have to keep adjusting as well as mix for the venue.

 

Next method is to set your levels with a meter to give yourself a base point but you then will have to use your ears (or someone else's ears, out front with the band playing) to tweak it properly. Otherwise you do just have to use your ears. Kind of harsh and condescending but that's the way it is.

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This Orban meter looks awesome.

 

Quick question:-

 

=> which of its meters is the best one to use for matching preset levels  ?

 

Ben

I only used the top two meters. 

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I'm just starting with Helix and have the same problem - I'm simply running the unit through an amp, so nothing complicated. Say I want to use 3 or 4 different presets in the same song. If I use a gentle sound preset/patch that already has volume 10.0 dialled in, it's too quiet alongside one of the louder presets for a louder section. I can't turn up the quiet preset to match a much louder preset later in the same song. I'd like to preset all my settings to a good volume balance for our entire set. But I can't see how to do that.

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I'm just starting with Helix and have the same problem - I'm simply running the unit through an amp, so nothing complicated. Say I want to use 3 or 4 different presets in the same song. If I use a gentle sound preset/patch that already has volume 10.0 dialled in, it's too quiet alongside one of the louder presets for a louder section. I can't turn up the quiet preset to match a much louder preset later in the same song. I'd like to preset all my settings to a good volume balance for our entire set. But I can't see how to do that.

 

You'll have to edit the patches. I recommend a dB meter on a phone for this, left in exactly the same location the whole time.

 

Go to the quietest patch you are using, and maybe turn it up a little in the output block (circa with an arrow pointing to the right). Note the volume level as you play.

 

Go to the other patches and change the output block level until they are all more or less the same. Plan to do some tweaking at practice, because with the band it will be different.

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I'm sure you already know but just in case....

 

You don't want all your patches the same volume, you want them to be placed properly in the mix of what you are doing.

 

It seems my clean patches need to be just a bit louder than the dirty ones to cut through, and of course lead boosts will be louder than the rhythm patches.

 

Thank you; I was beginning to think I was the only one. The only thing I disagree about is that I think clean patches cut through more easily than dirty ones unless you're using a lot of compression on the clean ones.

 

But I try to think about how things would be mixed on a record. Often but not always, clean rhythm stuff is at a more subliminal volume; lower in the mix. Power chord/riff kind of stuff is usually a little louder and of course lead stuff is the loudest (with the possible exception of lead fills behind singing).

 

When I save a patch, I always do it so that volume is immediately accessible for tweaking on the fly. If the amp volume is maxed out I have the cab/IR volume in the display and on the ready. And if it isn't obvious... yes, I use my ears.

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Perceived loudness of clean vs. dirty tones has always been the same, and has nothing whatsoever to do with what kind of gear is producing the tones. At any measured dB level, a distorted tone will always SEEM louder than a clean one, every time. Set your clean patch volumes first, and adjust the dirty ones accordingly. Otherwise you are bound to run out of headroom trying to get the clean tones to keep up.

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Perceived loudness of clean vs. dirty tones has always been the same, and has nothing whatsoever to do with what kind of gear is producing the tones. At any measured dB level, a distorted tone will always SEEM louder than a clean one, every time. Set your clean patch volumes first, and adjust the dirty ones accordingly. Otherwise you are bound to run out of headroom trying to get the clean tones to keep up.

Great advise here. But, always keep in mind that clean and dirty tones will sit differently in the mix with a band as well. So even after you have "normalized" your volumes at home, you still may need to adjust when playing with the rest of the band. 

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Great advise here. But, always keep in mind that clean and dirty tones will sit differently in the mix with a band as well. So even after you have "normalized" your volumes at home, you still may need to adjust when playing with the rest of the band.

Of course...that's a given. All bets are off once other instruments (and a drummer😜) show up.

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I struggled MIGHTILY with this when I first started using Helix... get everything "perfect' at home, but get to the gig and things just don't work right... too loud on one, too soft on the other, etc... I've tried a number of different ways, but even the band experiencing "volume creep" from song to song (drummer plays harder on some, the bass player hammers his strings to keep up, etc.... oiy...  

 

I have finally relegated my self to making ALL my patches volume adjustable on the fly...  Right now, what's working for me is to have the Amp Channel Volume controlled by the Expression Pedal. and set the mins and max so it's not a HUGE swing.  Usually I build my patches with a "standard" channel volume of about 7.8 - 8.0.... so I'll set that as the minimum and then set 9.4 - 9.6 for a max.   if the normal volume works, then I can use the Exp pedal for a lead boost, but I also usually have a footswitchable "2dB boost" in my signal chain for that, too.  if the song starts and my patch is too low, I just ease the pedal forward a bit until it's right.  Sometimes, shifting from a clean to a dirty snapshot, I will need to adjust it as well... so it works great.  Just have to put some forethought into the building process and account for it.    you will still have to get the volumes relatively close, though, this is for fine-tuning.

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