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MarkJarvis

HELIX, When will we get a new firmware update??

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I am hoping the "utility block" is a single block that sounds like Andy Summers.

Do you think they'll do one of those for Gilmour too? :-)

 

Craig

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This came to mind this morning.. A fletcher-munson block...how cool would that be?

 

You mean like a loudness control?

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You mean like a loudness control?

no I mean like a compensatory eq that changes as the output volume changes. Just dreamin' over here.

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no I mean like a compensatory eq that changes as the output volume changes. Just dreamin' over here.

That's how a loudness control works.  I think it basically tries to compensate for the Fletcher-Munson effect... I think.

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That's how a loudness control works.  I think it basically tries to compensate for the Fletcher-Munson effect... I think.

 

Yes, it is. Don't find it as often now, but it used to be on a LOT of home stereos.

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I have to say, I saw the thread and thought "Oh, jeez, not ANOTHER one".  But I figured what the heck... and found it very entertaining.... Especially the nude photo of Ernest Borgnine... Thanks Guys!

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Yes, it is. Don't find it as often now, but it used to be on a LOT of home stereos.

And car stereos. Some Home stereos had a continuously variable loudness control which I found more useful. I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad idea for the Helix but there’d be a learning period so as to know how much of it to use at what volumes.

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I doubt that any auto-loudness control is useful or practical for a musician.

That said, some loudness or even just an RMS/Peak level measurement probe attachable on any block output would be great.

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Yes, it is. Don't find it as often now, but it used to be on a LOT of home stereos.

And here I thought you were just being a smartass! I've never heard of a loudness control before

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And here I thought you were just being a smartass! I've never heard of a loudness control before

 

Nope.

 

I still have an old (but GOOD) Marantz that has it. very cool.

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And here I thought you were just being a smartass! I've never heard of a loudness control before

 

Well, it's an easier to market term than "Fletcher-Munson". LOL

 

Then there's the "Fletcher Christian" effect... where you get keel-hauled. :lol:

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Many of Yamaha's older receivers had very useful Loudness Contour Controls. A single rotary knob that did a great job to manually adjust how full, fat and crisp you wanted the system to sound.

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Many of Yamaha's older receivers had very useful Loudness Contour Controls. A single rotary knob that did a great job to manually adjust how full, fat and crisp you wanted the system to sound.

I remember those!

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They can work because they are built into the final amp so know how loud the system is playing. It is meaningless in a preamp device that doesn't know what the actual volume is.

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They can work because they are built into the final amp so know how loud the system is playing. It is meaningless in a preamp device that doesn't know what the actual volume is.

 

 

This is true.

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Nope.

 

I still have an old (but GOOD) Marantz that has it. very cool.

Yep. When you turn the main volume down, you turn on "loudness" and it boosts bass and treble frequencies. 

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They can work because they are built into the final amp so know how loud the system is playing. It is meaningless in a preamp device that doesn't know what the actual volume is.

A manual control you could set yourself for the volume you're playing at might be useful, a quick one-stop on-the-fly adjustment.

 

OTOH, I'd hate to think of my patches as having to work well, and make sense with each other, across all settings of a control like that, and at various volumes.

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Those receivers must predate me I guess. I come from the Boombox and Walkman generation

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I tried really hard to not click this thread....When we bought the thing, I don't think there was a quantifiable / guaranteed update feature of  "XX amps and XX effects every quarter until the product is discontinued". I've got to think most of us have really only scratched the surface of what it can do as-is. Especially if you are gigging. I've had one since it basically came out and one of the earliest if not the release firmware. Its stable, dynamic, and versatile. Those that are needy for an update, did the unit not satisfy when you got it? If not, why'd you keep it? Or are you just bored? Which is OK-Its not a judgement, I'm just curious. 

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Im just waiting for EVH and Diezel. Those two models, and Im completely content. Otherwise I love the Helix, my joey sturgis IR’s sound sick with it, and Im definitely happy. I just need the EVH and Diezel models for specific projects

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I tried really hard to not click this thread....When we bought the thing, I don't think there was a quantifiable / guaranteed update feature of "XX amps and XX effects every quarter until the product is discontinued". I've got to think most of us have really only scratched the surface of what it can do as-is. Especially if you are gigging. I've had one since it basically came out and one of the earliest if not the release firmware. Its stable, dynamic, and versatile. Those that are needy for an update, did the unit not satisfy when you got it? If not, why'd you keep it? Or are you just bored? Which is OK-Its not a judgement, I'm just curious.

Two things that you’re absolutely missing out on. Snapshots and the Litigator amp model. The first one is a godsend for gigging musicians and the second is an amazing sounding and feeling amp model.
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I tried really hard to not click this thread....When we bought the thing, I don't think there was a quantifiable / guaranteed update feature of  "XX amps and XX effects every quarter until the product is discontinued". I've got to think most of us have really only scratched the surface of what it can do as-is. Especially if you are gigging. I've had one since it basically came out and one of the earliest if not the release firmware. Its stable, dynamic, and versatile. Those that are needy for an update, did the unit not satisfy when you got it? If not, why'd you keep it? Or are you just bored? Which is OK-Its not a judgement, I'm just curious. 

 

Like any computer, part of the excitement of the Helix is its expandability, its future possibilities and capabilities.  It's not like buying an echo pedal or something that will be the same in 2 years as it is today.

 

Wanting firmware upgrades is the opposite of being bored - I love what my Helix does today and I'm eager to see what else these people can come up with.

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Like any computer, part of the excitement of the Helix is its expandability, its future possibilities and capabilities. It's not like buying an echo pedal or something that will be the same in 2 years as it is today.

 

Wanting firmware upgrades is the opposite of being bored - I love what my Helix does today and I'm eager to see what else these people can come up with.

Precisely!

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I don’t disagree with that last comment. I look all the time to see if something got released but don’t necesserily expect it. I just find that many seem to expect it as a right. I see it as gravy.

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I don’t disagree with that last comment. I look all the time to see if something got released but don’t necesserily expect it. I just find that many seem to expect it as a right. I see it as gravy.

I can’t disagree with this either.

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You mean like a loudness control?

If I'm not mistaken the Vetta combo I had years ago had a loudness control that was meant to simulate/compensate for the Fletcher-Munson effect. At least by the later firmware versions I think it did.   

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If I'm not mistaken the Vetta combo I had years ago had a loudness control that was meant to simulate/compensate for the Fletcher-Munson effect. At least by the later firmware versions I think it did.   

 

Yes it did.

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I don't want to be the bad guy giving the unpleaseant news around here... But I've been checking TGP Helix Forum and it seems that the Beta Testers believe nothing will be released until December... Bummer.

We're shooting for November. And then hopefully another update shortly after NAMM in January. A big portion of the would-be-January update might be a bit... controversial. Many will love it, some will give us the ol' side eye.

I've mentioned this before, but the reason things are taking so long has nothing to do with anyone sitting on their hands. A large portion of the Helix architecture (now called "Helix Core") has been receiving a massive rewrite, which lets us accomplish certain things:

  • Update Helix Floor, Helix Rack/Control, Helix LT, Helix Native, and HX Edit (new upcoming editor) all at the same time
  • Improve performance across the board
  • Remove hindrances from the old Helix architecture that precluded us from supporting certain features
  • Share models, features, and other code across multiple SKUs faster, resulting in more efficient development (and hopefully, more frequent updates)
  • Script certain time-consuming testing procedures
  • Build new hardware products around Helix Core that would've previously required entirely new architectures

I suppose if some dude owned Helix Floor and nothing else, he might say "Boo! I shouldn't have to wait because of the other boxes and software!" It's important to understand that all this work puts Line 6 in a better position to keep improving all Helix SKUs for the foreseeable future.

It would be nice if, instead of having to look for them on any other forum those kinds of announcements or hints were posted on L6's own forum.

Sounds coherent, right?

I'd post here more often if I didn't have to read yet another "When's the next firmware?!" thread.  ;)

And the occasional followup complaints that my marginally snarky banter somehow undermines customer concern. Certain other forums have zero problems playing along.

This came to mind this morning.. A fletcher-munson block...how cool would that be?

Loudness controls on home and car stereos (and full amps like Vetta) made sense, as the systems were generally closed; that is, the manufacturer sort of knew how loud the system would be and how that control would compensate playback within said system.

With something like Helix, it has no idea what volume you're actually playing at. The Volume knob could be set to 10% but be connected to a wall of Marshalls, all cranked. Or it could be set at 100% and run into a computer with tiny bookshelf speakers turned up to barely nothing. The only way to truly compensate for Fletcher-Munson is to know exactly what the volume in the room is, which means adding a boundary microphone to the top panel—and even then, there's a good chance Helix's panel will be receiving a notably different volume and frequency response than the location of your ears.

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Loudness controls on home and car stereos (and full amps like Vetta) made sense, as the systems were generally closed; that is, the manufacturer sort of knew how loud the system would be and how that control would compensate playback within said system.

With something like Helix, it has no idea what volume you're actually playing at. The Volume knob could be set to 10% but be connected to a wall of Marshalls, all cranked. Or it could be set at 100% and run into a computer with tiny bookshelf speakers turned up to barely nothing. The only way to truly compensate for Fletcher-Munson is to know exactly what the volume in the room is, which means adding a boundary microphone to the top panel—and even then, there's a good chance Helix's panel will be receiving a notably different volume and frequency response than the location of your ears.

Next you'll tell us that there's nothing you can do about gravity either...damn physics! I know...you guys should partner with the dudes at CERN. That way, when they finally create a black hole that swallows the earth, at least it'll sound cool...😂

 

Oh well...sorry boys, but there shall be no "sound awesome under all imaginable conditions without doing any work" button coming in this update. 😉

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We're shooting for November. And then hopefully another update shortly after NAMM in January. A big portion of the would-be-January update might be a bit... controversial. Many will love it, some will give us the ol' side eye.

 

Ah... I can't wait for the Andy Summers expansion pack... :ph34r:

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We're shooting for November. And then hopefully another update shortly after NAMM in January. A big portion of the would-be-January update might be a bit... controversial. Many will love it, some will give us the ol' side eye.

I've mentioned this before, but the reason things are taking so long has nothing to do with anyone sitting on their hands. A large portion of the Helix architecture (now called "Helix Core") has been receiving a massive rewrite, which lets us accomplish certain things:

  • Update Helix Floor, Helix Rack/Control, Helix LT, Helix Native, and HX Edit (new upcoming editor) all at the same time
  • Improve performance across the board
  • Remove hindrances from the old Helix architecture that precluded us from supporting certain features
  • Share models, features, and other code across multiple SKUs faster, resulting in more efficient development (and hopefully, more frequent updates)
  • Script certain time-consuming testing procedures
  • Build new hardware products around Helix Core that would've previously required entirely new architectures

I suppose if some dude owned Helix Floor and nothing else, he might say "Boo! I shouldn't have to wait because of the other boxes and software!" It's important to understand that all this work puts Line 6 in a better position to keep improving all Helix SKUs for the foreseeable future.

I'd post here more often if I didn't have to read yet another "When's the next firmware?!" thread.  ;)

And the occasional followup complaints that my marginally snarky banter somehow undermines customer concern. Certain other forums have zero problems playing along.

Loudness controls on home and car stereos (and full amps like Vetta) made sense, as the systems were generally closed; that is, the manufacturer sort of knew how loud the system would be and how that control would compensate playback within said system.

With something like Helix, it has no idea what volume you're actually playing at. The Volume knob could be set to 10% but be connected to a wall of Marshalls, all cranked. Or it could be set at 100% and run into a computer with tiny bookshelf speakers turned up to barely nothing. The only way to truly compensate for Fletcher-Munson is to know exactly what the volume in the room is, which means adding a boundary microphone to the top panel—and even then, there's a good chance Helix's panel will be receiving a notably different volume and frequency response than the location of your ears.

 

Thanks for the update!  

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We're shooting for November. And then hopefully another update shortly after NAMM in January. A big portion of the would-be-January update might be a bit... controversial. Many will love it, some will give us the ol' side eye.

 

ALRIGHT!!! Nov 1st. Only one week away. YAHOO!!!. (I know, I was just kidding)

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Appreciate the informational update DI, some fantastic news you have there.

 

Even though I am studio only... I am a user of the Helix Rack, Floor Controller, Helix Native, and will be the new HX Edit.  

The extra time spent on update parity, new models for all, and performance increases across the board is definitely something I will appreciate!

 

Bullet points 4, & 5 seem like they may help stream-line the developmental process of future models, and not only give us more frequent updates, but still a lot of stuff in them as well.  That sounds like a very worth while investment.

 

Building new products around Helix Core: is something I realize benefits me, even though I may never buy the other products. (Like LT, or the Helix Floor Processor) But more iterations brings in more user base which creates an incentive for longer life investment in Helix from L6.

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I'd post here more often if I didn't have to read yet another "When's the next firmware?!" thread.  ;)

And the occasional followup complaints that my marginally snarky banter somehow undermines customer concern. Certain other forums have zero problems playing along.

 

:D

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Ah... I can't wait for the Andy Summers expansion pack... :ph34r:

 

Oh, is that the controversial upgrade?

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I’m really struggling to imagine what you could be adding to the Helix that would cause side eye other than “pay for add-on†content, and even then: if it’s good content people will pay the dollars.

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Remove hindrances from the old Helix architecture that precluded us from supporting certain features

 

 

This sounds a bit like " we should have already had this out there but spikey won't quit bitchin so"....  ;)

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